Journeys in Fandom
Step into the world of fandom with Matt and Tim as they take you on a wild ride through the pop culture universe. This isn't just any podcast - it's a journey with two mates who are unapologetically passionate about all things comics, film, TV and more.
Journeys in Fandom
Doctor Who: 73 Yards and Dot and Bubble
What if traditional TV ratings are no longer the benchmark for success? Join us as we explore the evolving landscape of Doctor Who, dissect the show's current ratings slump despite the Disney and BBC partnership, and ponder the broader implications for the show's future.
We reviewed episodes 73 Yards and Dot and Bubble, which could have been better, leaving us more puzzled than intrigued. Both stories had so much potential but ultimately fell flat due to underdeveloped storylines and incoherent progression. We critique the wasted opportunities and discuss how supernatural and traditional sci-fi elements might have spiced things up. Our analysis doesn't stop there—we delve into the portrayal of TV ageing, missed chances for inclusivity, and the episode's frustrating inconsistencies.
Finally, we reminisce about the golden days of "Doctor Who" and its impact on family enjoyment. From the Daleks vs. Cybermen showdowns to the charm of past Doctors, we reflect on how the current series struggles to captivate younger viewers. We speculate on the upcoming series finale, the potential recasting of Captain Jack, and potential twists involving the Doctor's past, all while questioning the show's identity crisis and yearning for a defining moment for the new Doctor.
Hello and welcome to another double Doctor who episode of Journeys in Fandom Yay.
Speaker 2:Yay, after a week's hiatus, we're back for more Doctor who flavoured goodness.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes.
Speaker 2:Yes. You can tell by the excitement. Just for context, Matt has watched the two episodes back to back in the last hour or two hours or so, whereas I watch them when they're on. So you can tell why he's excited and I'm even more excited.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because I have done a weekend at UK Games Expo. I thought it was that, so I can see through time. Yeah, I saw the TikToks and I thought oh, that's where you'll be. You'll be at Game Expo this weekend.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I hate my life. I'm ruined. I am physically, emotionally dead. You know, remember our convention days. We could do like four, like milton keynes. We do like four days.
Speaker 2:It would be fine, oh I wish I was that age again. Oh god, yeah, yeah. You used to do like feeling my 40s.
Speaker 1:I'm feeling it. Yeah, I used to do four days in london. I just swung around for four days on jelly babies and a cup of tea. Yeah, yeah and oh, I'm spent. Yeah Also, dear Doctor who cosplayers, do not call disabled people Davros. You sound like a twat.
Speaker 2:Well, that was the whole point, while Russell rewrote Davros no-transcript no, we had a lovely, a lovely fourth Doctor cosplayer.
Speaker 1:Come up to us and chat to chat to Josie and sort of say, oh, davros, you've dyed your hair just because she happens to be in a wheelchair oh mate, oh yeah, what yeah? Oh yeah.
Speaker 2:What? Yeah, well, there were Doctor who cosplayers at like a board games expo thing then.
Speaker 1:Yes, galactic Knights. Oh, they're not. They get a black mark in my book.
Speaker 2:Yes, oh dear. Oh, that's even worse if it's like people who are hired, it's not like just a rando walking along.
Speaker 1:Yeah, if I had a book that have a black mark in it galactic knights, you've been warned.
Speaker 2:Whoever you are.
Speaker 1:Well, we didn't, we didn't do that in are they did, we did we no, the thing is with that is they're paid people to be there.
Speaker 2:If they were just some rando cosplayer not that is that you can excuse it, but you could say well, it's just a random person, I didn't know, but this person's been paid to go there they go around insulting people.
Speaker 1:Yeah, just do better. I'm grumpy and old and lack of tea. I am tired yeah, so this is going to probably be a rant, but hey, you'll be fine, right?
Speaker 2:before we jump into that, let's look at the ratings, because the ratings are. We've into that. Let's look at the ratings, because the ratings are yeah they were great. We've got loads of ratings to look at.
Speaker 1:I love a bit of ratings.
Speaker 2:So last time we spoke the no, the ratings yeah, the ratings are in. The overnight ratings are in for one and two.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:We've now got the seven day and 7 day plus 4, whatever that means. Final consolidated figures also takes into account views on PC, tablets and smartphones.
Speaker 1:So it's trying to be positive, but it's not looking that good is it my imagination, or is there a downward trend being seen here?
Speaker 2:It was a blip for 73 yards and then it's gone down again. So it was down, down, down. Boom was really down. That was the worst ratings since jody, I think. And then brooklyn blipped for 73 yards because I think that obviously was quite intriguing, and then dropped again. I think the thing for me is, when the first overnight ratings came in, everyone all the the positive spin was well we'll wait until the iplayer comes out, because everyone watched it at midnight everyone, it'll be a lot better.
Speaker 2:It's not about the tv race, which is not. We'll wait until the iPlayer comes out, because everyone watched it at midnight Everyone, it'll be a lot better. It's not about the TV rating, which it's not, and we agree. We've agreed multiple times that it's not about the TV ratings. But then the iPlayer ratings come in and it's not any better, it's not even double.
Speaker 1:No.
Speaker 2:And that is really bad. It's, that is really bad. The iPlayer ratings for episode three boom did make a bit of a difference. It pushed it, it got an extra million.
Speaker 1:But some of the others. Yes, it's not good really Well, like you said, do ratings actually matter? Or is it just disney, disney and the b, even rtd and all that? I've just thrown cash at this. And as long as it gets views, uh well, that just means it, doesn't it? Um, as long as it sells itself. So I'm assuming. I don't know how tv works anymore. How do you actually make?
Speaker 2:money out of tv anymore. It's. It's interesting because this, because it has the disney buy-in. Yeah, we I think we talked about the previous podcast we don't see you don't see ratings on disney plus like you do on I, and it's all to do with clicks and stuff like that. So I don't think we'll ever see Disney plus ratings for Doctor who.
Speaker 1:So I don't know how they actually For the beep. So Disney have said here is a big wadge of cash, let us play with Doctor who, and surely the BBC is just going cool. Actually, if no one watches it, it's irrelevant because it's paid for. Is that me being a cynic?
Speaker 2:Yeah, essentially this year this thing was a two-season deal paid for up front, basically funded by Disney. So whatever they were going to do, they were always going to do two series and then after that, who knows, I guess. So whatever they were going to do, they were always going to do two series and then after that, who knows, I guess. I'm just looking to see if I can find anything about Disney Plus ratings. But you can't find anything, because even things like Star Wars and Marvel, they don't give out granular ratings like that, so we'll never know. It is interesting because for the first time ever in this series, I to the end of the episode, so the one's just gone. I just watched all the titles because we wanted to watch this trailer and I noticed that when the the logos come at the end, disney's comes before bbc. It's disney on the left, bbc on the right, which I thought was quite like disney first bbc second which is just just an observation, but it kind of highlights what we say.
Speaker 1:Bbc it's very much secondary now in this relationship I'm gonna pose a question that will probably come back to multiple times in this podcast over the rest of this season and next season. Has has who reached its point where it needs to go in the cupboard and have a little nap in this podcast over the rest of this season and next season, has who reached its point where it needs to go in a cupboard and have a little nap and think about what it's done for a while?
Speaker 2:We talked to. We said it before, didn't we? I think it has. I think it's. It'd be interesting to see what happens between the gap between the end of this series and the start of the next one, because they finished filming the second one. So it's all done, it's in the can, but are we going to see contract renegotiations? Are we going to see rumours? Is RTD going to stay? Is Shooter Gato going to stay? All that kind of stuff? I suppose if now's the time for it to go away, it makes sense and just go away and people start to miss it in five, five years. Bring it back.
Speaker 2:Who knows it's, yeah, it's. We've always said it's not as popular as it was. And that, uh, for better or for worse, the Whittaker era killed off what was left of the goodwill, and then Russell came back and, dare I say, it has made it worse. All the controversy over the way the series has shifted its focus has alienated more people, by the looks of things.
Speaker 1:Yeah, for whatever reason, but then again, like the metro article said, it's not for us, so we can't have an opinion. No, so and I'm sorry and I don't want to sound negative, but I'm just jaded. I just think I've got to a point in my life where I'm just I'm just jaded with everything and I thought it was gonna get both barrels of it and I don't want to be negative. I just don't.
Speaker 2:But oh god, please someone I'm I'm deploying the background folks the old background has been deployed right.
Speaker 1:So I am old and I'm about to shout some flowers.
Speaker 2:So let's talk about 73 yards or 66.75 metres if you're a metric. We'll come to that in a minute. But there you go. How are we going to tackle this one, because this was an interesting episode on multiple levels.
Speaker 1:So it started. And then they hit the fairy nest, whatever it was, and then obviously Ruby gets separated and it's a no doctor story.
Speaker 2:Doctor who liked the story.
Speaker 1:yeah, yeah yeah, it's a companion focus. We're going to see the companions acting chops. It's going to be great. And for the, the story, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's a companion focus. We're going to get to see the companions acting chops. It's going to be great. And for the first part, you know what's the mystery, what's occurring, what's happening, and then it just kept going and nothing happened and nothing changed, and you discover nothing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was. I'm trying to think how best to describe it it was. I'm trying to think that someone described it as a mystery box episode, where you didn't actually get to see the mystery box, which made it more frustrating than you know. Sometimes you get a mystery in an episode where you just don't know what's going on, but it's quite good and you can theorise. This was too much of a mystery, it was too big and it ended up being more frustrating than being, yeah, satisfying. That's what I'm trying to say.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So I think the issue for me is the mystery at the start of the episode is the same mystery at the end of the episode and you learn nothing other than the person doing the voodoo in the background, this fucking YMCA in the background, is old Ruby, and you just go all right, cool, how, why, just what? The whole people talk to her and then they say, oh, ask her.
Speaker 2:And they run away and it's all just, I don't, that's just this is another one, I think for me, like maestro, had a really good germ of an idea that just didn't have any uh, what's the word? It didn't fulfill itself because I think, if we break it down a little bit, had it been a fairy, fairy tale, the, the whole running joke thing in the pub where they scare her with the story of mad jack, if that had been the actual storyline of the of the episode, it'd be brilliant, wouldn't it? Where it's some kind of weird fairy creature and someone pointed out somewhere that I've forgotten it the torchwood episode where you had the fairies that were kidnapping kids and then they brought them back as adults. If it had been something like that, where they'd interfere with fairy circle and it'd been a god, a fairy god, that had kidnapped the doctor and she had to find him again, that would have been great. And if the old woman had turned out to be the fairy or the witch or something, him again, that would have been great.
Speaker 2:And if the old woman turned out to be the fairy or the witch or something like that, that would have been really cool. Because it was this, it's leaning into this gods, and and actually, what's her face? Lethbridge stewart lady actually said, didn't she? She said unit now deals with more supernatural aliens, which kind of like it was really ham-fisted way of saying this is what this series is all about now. But it could have been that, couldn't it? If she'd been a ghost, a goblin, a fairy, a god and not future ruby, it would have kind of worked, I thought.
Speaker 1:I thought that was really cool again, when you, when you meet mad jack, you go oh, actually, this is going to be the. Her mission is to stop him like like she thought we can, oh yeah cool, I can, I can get behind this.
Speaker 1:And you go oh, he's been elected and okay, it's now happening, he's going to be prime minister and he's going to nuke the world, apparently, because that's definitely how that all works. Yeah, um, and then the whole thing of all if I just stand in the middle of a football pitch and work out where she's going to be, and then she's standing next to him and suddenly you go, what?
Speaker 2:and he runs away because that was interesting, because him as an actor and as a character was really good. But it should have been a story on its own. It should have been a separate story. And it reminded me and I don't know if you've seen it Russell wrote really good series called Years and Years, which is basically it's worth finding it.
Speaker 2:It's basically a period of about 35 years into the near future where it's focused on this family of characters and there's about Emma Thompson plays this kind of sort of right-wing populist person that gets into power as prime minister, and itpson plays this kind of sort of right-wing populist person that gets into power as prime minister and it's all all this kind of stuff that might happen in the near future.
Speaker 2:And it reminded me of that but in a very condensed squash down blob that if he could have fitted into that series and I think that's kind of where that kind of came from. But yeah, it was kind of like all right, he's going to be the baddie, but we're three quarters away through the episode. It doesn't make sense. It was kind of rushed, it was kind of on fast forward through that. I think it's a waste because he seemed like a really good character. They could have really built on and made him very harold saxon-ish kind of thing, but ground down to earth so and and also it was the throwaway line that the Doctor said at the start about him and then suddenly that was what she was there to do. It didn't make sense.
Speaker 2:It was a bit weird so two stories kind of blended over with a third story of this timey-wimey thing happening with her, the aging of this timey-wimey thing happening with her. The ageing of Ruby was rubbish. So she went from what, early, late. How old is she in real life? She's in her 20s, early 20s, and they aged her to about our age by just basically putting a big pair of glasses on her wig. That hurt, she's young, so what? Basically our age stuck a wig on her, gave us some big glasses, and that was all they did with it.
Speaker 1:it was kind of like, oh, that's a bit hokey, that it's a bit hokey, but I also saw a thing that sort of said star wars aging as well. So she goes young, young, young, oh god, yeah, yeah suddenly she's an old woman and she's only like 50.
Speaker 2:uh, yeah it was.
Speaker 2:I watched because the one thing and we jump around a little bit views from an eight-year-old section my son pointed out that is the woman talking in sign language because she's moving her hands and she's doing all that and I thought, oh, is it sign language that she's actually doing? But we never got to find out because they never explained it. And I watched doctor who, confidential and apparently the, the actress was given a set series of things to say, like a mini monologue that made nothing and a series of hand gestures to do. Could have been sign language, but that would have been really cool if it had been sign language, but you didn't actually get told, so you had to. If someone knew sign language they could read it. That would have been quite a nice little, cool little thing, but we didn't get that.
Speaker 1:And also just having obviously watched it 45 minutes ago. Um so, when ruby's mum speaks to her, the phone doesn't work properly and she's going. I can't hear what she's saying, even though she's literally there on the phone, and then the next thing you know when unit happens oh, she's going well. And then the next thing you know when unit happens. Oh, she's going well literally, it's an earpiece.
Speaker 2:Just what the hell? I didn't think about that, yeah I just don't.
Speaker 1:And also when the unit yeah, and they all go so literally.
Speaker 2:The whole, the whole unit network is it. But when the prime minister dude runs, he's standing on a stage with loads of other people setting up the stage and he's the only one that runs away. Oh, so many holes. One thing that someone pointed out on TikTok and I was like, oh, that's quite clever, I don't know whether it was relevant or not is way, way, way back and I had to go and research it. In Matt Smith, hungry Earth. He was with Rory and Amy and they see themselves in the distance from the future and they're all blurry.
Speaker 2:And someone said oh yeah, that's really clever because it's kind of seeing someone from a distance, so they're all blurry. I thought it's quite good. But turns out what Russell did. I think this is quite cool. I'll give him his dues on this. He he measured. He stood in Swansea and looked at people from a distance until he got a passerby who was really blurry and then went to that point and measured it to see how far it was, and it was 73 yards. So that's how he made it up. But the thing that got me is who talks in yards these days, except for the americans and sports people? It's meters, isn't it? English people speaking miles possibly, or meters, we never. That's 50 yards away we go. That's about 10 metres, isn't it? You never really talk in measurements of yards.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I found that a bit odd. That that's the measurement people talk in. I know it makes sense because it's a cool episode title. I'll let them have that, but it's yeah, it's just an interesting observation, but the whole concept of the blurriness and the future and the way he measured it in real life, I thought that was quite good. I'll let him have that. It was quite good.
Speaker 1:And like she's going oh, I've measured it, it's exactly this far. Okay, ruby, how did you measure it?
Speaker 2:Are you this far? Okay, ruby, how did you measure it?
Speaker 1:are you literally like finding a point that she's standing next to and measuring where you were, and it's the wibbly wobbly phony, won't he? Wasn't it? She just used the, the app, wibbly wobbly phony, won't he just? Oh god, it's like, yeah, it's like the oh, don't stand on the grass and football pitch, otherwise the police will shoot you.
Speaker 2:Um, no, they won't because she works for the prime minister's team, so why she's? She's allowed to be there. It was just yeah that was yeah, it's kind of like oh I don't know it. Just it felt like there was three stories there and they all got squashed together and there was no ending to it and the whole yeah sorry, god yeah, no, like no, I've got a tangent to go.
Speaker 2:It was the whole timey-wimey thing. Oh, it's, it's, it's ruby, all along, and uh, that was a separate story in itself, isn't it? It's basically I'm sure we've seen that before doctor who, where it turns out that the person is the same person. I suppose that means if they've already done it in this episode, they can't make Ruby her own mother in the finale. It has to be something else, because they've already done the timey-wimey time loop thing already.
Speaker 1:Who knows, she's going to be her own mum, her own dad, her own grandma? I reckon who the hell knows anymore?
Speaker 2:In this episode Susan Twist was back in, wasn't she? She got a conversational piece with her. So this was the first episode where Ruby kind of vaguely recognised her, although she didn't recognise Ruby.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, now what I was going to say at the beginning of the episode. When you had the Mad Jack Pub scene, when she's standing in front of the windows behind her head I honestly thought there was going to be some jump scare where suddenly she'll step away and there'll be something there behind her. I was so prepared for it. It didn't happen.
Speaker 2:I went oh, it was kind of yeah, the lighting was going, it was all.
Speaker 1:Yes, it was very much horror. It was very American werewolf In London wasn't it. Just going. Oh, the bloody pub, the dark stops in the air, kind of thing. And if they'd?
Speaker 2:done it If they'd done an episode Like that, where it was Very jump scary, very creepy. It would be great. But they kind of went Creepy, creepy, creepy, boring, boring, boring, boring, time-wimey, because it was boring.
Speaker 1:The second half was just like and also stupid question why did the doctor disappear?
Speaker 2:where did he go, just?
Speaker 1:was it just what? Was it just because? Because obviously he broke the string. But then she reads the the things not going. Well, actually you both messed up here. Did he have his own version where he was his own ghost thing doing the old thing in the background?
Speaker 2:And if it's been a ghost, goblin, fairy, magic thing, it would have made sense, but it didn't make sense. Yeah, there wasn't even a science fiction reason for it, it was just he just disappeared and she ended up going to a time loop of herself.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I just don't know anymore.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was again lots of good ideas not well executed and tried to be something too many things at once. I think that was it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay, so this is obviously a truncated series. So it's only eight episodes, isn't it? And the Christmas expedition dump, yeah. So does this series know what it wants to be? Is it so used to doing like 13 episodes? It's just going oh God, what do I do? And it's squishing what should be two part episodes into 45 minutes of mess.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a good point because it's, because it's obviously come, it's been devised, it's it's yes, actually that's a really good point. Does the series know what it's trying to do? And what it's trying to do is squashed into a smaller time frame. So for bad or for worth. Whitaker's first series was very preachy and very. They tried to change too many things, but at least they knew, at least they had a system and they were sticking to it. It was a very good system, but they they stuck to it. This seems to veer from political messaging to a little bit of sci-fi, to fantasy, and it's all mixed together and there's no real continuity to it. And yeah, are they trying to squish too much in to such a short time?
Speaker 1:Hmm, yeah, much in to such a short time. Yeah, this has been like rtd knows what he's doing, but it feels like this is his first job. Yeah, this is the problem. You're going where. Where's your overarching plan here? So is this series designed to introduce the americans to doctor who again? Is it designed to reset everything and set a new mythos completely, or is it just one of the episodes that we just don't care?
Speaker 2:about.
Speaker 2:It's weird because some people say, oh, he's lost his touch and he can't write for tv anymore but, it's not true because, like, say, years and years, that was to 2023 I think it was brilliant not seen. It's a sin. Apparently. It's really good. He's written that. He's written stuff recently. Unlike moffat. He's written things like within the last two years that have been really good for tv. So it's not as if he's been like on hiatus and has just come back and he's just not any good anymore, which does happen to people. Uh, so I I genuinely don't know what what's gone wrong?
Speaker 1:I think it's also not a question of does Doctor who know what it wants to be? It's what is the target audience for this show? If there is one, it's going to be real niche and you go well. Actually, like so many episodes, various people have defended and said, oh, this is fantastic, is going to be real niche, and you go well. Actually, like so many episodes, various people have defended and said, oh, this is fantastic, and other people have hated, and you go okay. So what is your target? Demographic? And, like Demetra said, we're not, it, I'm not bitter about that one at all, am I?
Speaker 2:You'd argue that Doctor who should be for families. It should be. The cliche is when you watch it as a kid you hear behind a sofa got scared of the Daleks, blah, blah, blah. It's like a rite of passage for everyone in the UK and it should be for families. But is it a family show? That's. But then at the same time has family tv changed so much that the concept of family tv as we know it doesn't exist. Because, like my son watches it, he found boom really boring he was. He found some of the episodes I didn't find that great. He didn't. This one 73 yards he. He liked the concept of it but got really annoyed at the end because it was like well, what, what kind of said? What's the point in that?
Speaker 1:yeah, I'm there with him.
Speaker 2:Just what the hell was that? Because, yeah, and this the dot and bubble thing, he doesn't want to watch that yet because he saw the trailer, didn't really like it, which is fair enough, and he'll probably get around to watching it anyway. But that's got its own uh, what's the word? Slammed anyway. So I don't, I don't know. I would say Doctor who should be for families, but I think there's so many things thrown into the mix that it's watering down that simple family enjoyment.
Speaker 2:Because I remember, always remember going to a convention it was the one where it was a Daleks versus a Cybermen. That episode in Torture Tower Didn't really like it. I didn't have any children at the time, but the kids that were in the audience thought it was amazing because the Daleks were fighting the Cybermen whereas the adults were kind of going, yeah, it's a bit rubbish. That's what it should be. It should just be aliens shooting at each other be a bit mindless. And I'm not seeing that in this series. I'm not really seeing, really seen anything that is kind of like oh, really exciting for kids. It just seems a bit, I don't know, doesn't seem to be those standout moments where a kid could look back on that series and go oh, do you remember that alien?
Speaker 1:or do you remember? That it just seems a bit, and again like there are no episodes so far that I really want to watch again. True, to be fair, I didn't want to watch it the first time, if I'm honest. But here we are podcasting. But this is the problem. There are older episodes where you go yeah, I could watch that again and again, and again, and it's fine. It can be like comfort TV, yeah.
Speaker 1:And this is from well, no, this is all of who there's some stories from, like old, poo and new who you go. Yeah, actually you know what. I can have it on the background and it's good fun and you can quote off of it. You can just literally go, I know what's coming, I can do it word for word kind of thing, and you go.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, that's that's.
Speaker 1:That's good fun and just good solid tv and it might be wrote in in Spectacles, but they're comfort telly and the new stuff I'm going. Oh no, nah, it is not the one.
Speaker 2:No, I think there's nothing there that I would go. Oh yeah, I'll watch that again. But yeah, the other day I was thinking, oh, I might watch the Capaldi Orient Express one, because that's one of the uh, capaldi Orient Express one, cause that's one of my faves, and I just saw a clip of it on Tik TOK. I went.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, I'll watch that again, Cause I really enjoyed that episode. So yeah, you're right, you can just watch it. You've seen it a hundred times before and you just think oh yeah just watch, turn your brain off and go.
Speaker 1:Oh, actually, that was just good, honest background telly, like if you're doing something like potting around the house doing housework and you're just on in the background, yeah, and it's just nice to have it there and it just feels right. Whereas this, these episodes, you go.
Speaker 2:I just don't, I just yeah it's interesting because, uh, ruby, I thought she was great in the christmas episode and I'm getting a bit tired of her now and I don't know what it is. I don't know what it is, I think I said it the other week. She's become a know-it-all very quickly and in Dot and Bobble she was great on me a bit.
Speaker 2:But, yeah, the Christmas episode. They were both great and I think it's because I said it before there wasn't much of them and they were quite it was, but now they're both in there all the time. The performances are a bit I don't know. Judy's all right, don't be wrong. It's a lot of energy, but he's annoying me a little bit now and she is as well, which is really annoying. It's annoyed me personally because I like them at Christmas and I still like the Christmas episode, but I don't know.
Speaker 1:I've had a thought Put Tutti in a Tenon episode and put what's her name, molly or Ruby into a companion for the same episode and you go. Actually, would that writing with those characters, because obviously our tenant's quite energy as well would a tutti work in a tenant episode? I'm partly thinking. I don't know.
Speaker 2:He's not had. And even with Don, with don bubble, he didn't have it, he's not had. Each doctor has to have their serious moment, don't they? They have to have that kind of family of blood kind of moment where they flip and they're really kind of he's not had that yet at the moment he's all bouncy, bouncy, uh, sort of like spaniel wagging tail puppy kind of excitement.
Speaker 2:But we've not had that serious, dead serious moment yet. He's cried a lot. So I don't think he could do serious tenant episodes, but he could do some of the more imparted ones tooth and claw, the werewolf one.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he could do that. So you make her Rose and him Tennant. And actually, if you swap those characters around, would they be as annoying as we're finding them at the moment?
Speaker 2:No, I think Ruby could quite easily slot in to any of those, because she's that standard companion at the moment. She's just getting a bit annoying. But then they all did, except for martha and not billy.
Speaker 1:No, my thing, uh, bill but bill's only there for a season and so is martha.
Speaker 2:That's the reason why, yeah, the she's becoming quite know-it-all quite quickly, but they're all getting know-it-all and that's what always annoyed me. So I suppose it's not her personally, it's just I don't like a know-it-all companion. I prefer, I prefer my companions like the old school where they don't really know what's going on and it's more. But that's the way it is him. No, he can't, he couldn't do a capaldi definitely. I don't think I have not seen him do serious acting yet like proper in your face, not shouting. He shouts too much. If he does serious and does it quiet, it'll be a lot better. But I assume this will come at the end of the series properly.
Speaker 1:Shall, we move on to Dot and.
Speaker 2:Bubble or is there anything else? Left for 73 and a quarter inches.
Speaker 1:No.
Speaker 2:Let's get the bottle ready once again so dot and bubble, interesting, first proper sci-fi episode of the series, wouldn't you say, yeah, yeah, first proper boom didn't really count, really, this was a proper, obviously sci-fi. It felt like a proper Doctor who episode, if that makes sense to a certain extent. Where you got the feeling it was yeah, this is kind of Doctor Who-ish sci-fi, monster bit of a mystery going on, doctor's there to save you, although the Doctor's hardly ever in it. But we kind of understood why that was at the end. So yeah, for me it felt like a new who proper, like a filler episode for Doctor who, but it was a sci-fi one. Definitely there was no goblins or fantasy involved, was there? It was Black Mirror Light. That was what a lot of people said and I agree.
Speaker 1:yeah, it was black the obvious thing is social media, which is oh yeah, it was black mirror.
Speaker 2:Yeah it did. It did actually that whole concept of social media and you could see that was that's an extension of what could happen in the future. That was kind of yeah, that was a good Doctor Who-ish commentary on what could happen in the future to a certain extent, and in fact the lead lass couldn't actually function without her bubble and you go yeah, okay, cool, you can see that happening now these days, and the fact that they're so blinkered by their own goings-on that actually the rest of the world is irrelevant.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I can see absolutely all of that, but I just again. It's just what was the point of it.
Speaker 2:The point probably came at the end yeah, that again it's all this build-up for two minutes. At the end it felt obviously, I think that was what it was supposed to be. It was supposed to be a black mirror style episode where it was taking a look at stuff I'm trying to.
Speaker 2:I think obviously we might as well talk about the racism thing, get that out of the way, because that was a lot of what the ending was about. I thought it was interesting because they were obviously going to do they said they were going to do it they were going to touch on the doctor's race at some point in the show. In some ways they did it in a way which was better than I was expecting. I'm interested to see what they do next week's episode because they're going back in time so there's got to be some commentary there, comment there. But the way they did it, I suppose in some ways, was not overtly, kind of in your face, racism. It's done in a clever way.
Speaker 2:I'm going to give him that it was clever and it was clever in the sense I suppose this is in the way that you didn't it was. It was kind of it was there but you didn't notice it, if that makes sense. It wasn't until you, kind of you, started to go through the episode, going, hang on a minute, what's going on here? And then it wasn't until it hit home. At the end you suddenly go oh, right, now I understand it.
Speaker 1:Admittedly, watching it tired was not a good plan. I don't think it was subtly done. It threw me because obviously she was going on saying oh, you're in the same room and you're going right, because you've literally got a pair of twins in the same frame.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so yeah yeah and there was other I I missed some of the references about. She said about him getting disciplined or something like that. Or I'll listen to him, but he's going to get disciplined later or something like that. That. I missed that bit and it's just like, oh yeah, you look back on it, you just think, yeah, that's interesting yeah, and again it's a case of there's a system that's eating its own inhabitants for a reason that let's talk about the ocCD slugs, shall we?
Speaker 2:Because that's what really annoyed me in the episode. So these are slugs that we have assumed the dot and bubble thing has created because it's got annoyed with the people it's serving. These are slugs who are OCD because they're doing it in alphabetical order. Why Is it? Because, oh, they've got a list. Well, where did they get the list from? Did dot and bubble create the list? Did they get it from somewhere else? Are they just really ocd that they decided to do it that way? And then suddenly you get that shot of the home world and the slugs have taken over the home world. But then, is that? Is that because the dot and bubble was on the home world, it was implied that it was these kids who had it and their parents didn't. So we never got that explained. You just saw that one shot of, like the the slug, ah taking over the home.
Speaker 1:But then again you see the mum in the bubble, don't you? Because the, the parent, appears, but obviously it's already gone yeah, it's.
Speaker 2:It doesn't make any sense. So that annoyed me.
Speaker 2:So it was at that point I was getting annoyed and I missed some of the subtle racism because I was getting annoyed with other things and it was like, oh, we're not going to find out who these slugs are, they're just being created. How were they created? Why were they created? Doctor, who? All who knew, who always used to explain where an alien came from or where a villain came from? Even if it was subtle, they used to explain this was they just got created and they were really anal and they went down the list and started eating you, because that's what they do.
Speaker 1:It's not like they told you where they came from. They gave an idea of a motivation and you're going eating someone alphabetically because you have a list. That's not a motivation, it's just okay. Yes, why.
Speaker 2:It would be better if they were the natural inhabitants of that planet who were breaking in and eating people, or it would. It would be really clever if they were just invading the planet and doing it subtly. That was what I thought was happening at the start, which is quite clever. These are sneaking about eating people in in, like, uh, cold blood and they're not noticing because they're too brain dead to notice.
Speaker 1:But no, it was just a weird thing. Towards the end you had the matey boy september and she goes oh, we changed his name from like evas or something and then suddenly the little red thing literally shoots him in the head and I went what the hell?
Speaker 2:that's what ruined the ending for me, because the whole racism thing at the end I missed it because I was more intrigued with the fact that she was an absolute bitch and I thought it was. I was waiting because that came and I thought, oh, that's quite good, she's not as helpless as she makes out. She's a bit of a bitch and I thought that she was going to end up being a bitch at the end and she was going to kind of get away with it and that would have been the ending shot of her being a bitch and actually she wasn't as nice as yeah, make her the villain of the piece, certainly everyone's a villain and we're going and I missed the racism thing I think, because and this because I didn't, because I was getting annoyed with that millie gibson acted really weird in that scene and she was kind of re obviously reacting to what the doctor was saying.
Speaker 2:But the way her body language was it didn't sit right in the scene and it kind of distracted me because I'm going well she's a bit.
Speaker 2:She's a bitch, well, that's great, but why is she looking like that? As if in my head I was thinking it was as if the doctor and ruby knew that she was a bitch and that was why they kind of picked her out of the list. But because of that, I missed the connotations of what they were saying, because I wasn't really paying attention and I was like, oh, at the end I realized what was going on, but that it felt like she could have, they could have made out this dim-witted girl really ruthless and was actually yeah and again using the, the whole dot thing.
Speaker 1:If the dot system is killing people, why make slugs when you, when?
Speaker 2:you literally see the dot acting like a bullet.
Speaker 1:Oh look, I'm going to kill this person. Bang Done, move on. Why make a race of slow things to just exist?
Speaker 2:That's why they should have been sentient lifeforms. Maybe the dot had let them in. The computer system had actually let these things in. It would have been more plausible.
Speaker 1:The guy's literally fighting off a metal pipe and the next thing you know, it's just literally he gets shot in the head by a metal ball On telly.
Speaker 2:They've all got metal balls in front of their faces. They could have all been killed in order. Why prolong the agony. It doesn't make sense. I never thought of that. It actually doesn't make sense.
Speaker 1:Why are the slugs race of slugs? Why are there slugs there? What do they eat? Why are they eating you? For what happens when they're eating everybody? Do they eat each other? Do they just exist? Who knows?
Speaker 2:You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:Yeah, a story should stand up to basic scrutiny, and if I can tear it apart that much when I'm half asleep, God, help the rest of us, because with Doctor who you can turn your brain off to a certain extent, can't you?
Speaker 2:And go, oh, I'll let that go. But now you've mentioned it, why didn't the dots just kill them all instantaneously, or in alphabetical order, or however, really fast. Why produce these slugs and kill them very slowly over a couple of weeks and then kill the home world with more slugs yeah and again like with the whole dot and bubble thing.
Speaker 1:Actually, if the the doctor's turned up, he's going. Oh, I can't get in, he said. Even the thing keeps my me out because of the shields. You go, but you're in there, you're literally. If they're coming through a conjurer, surely you can come through the same conduit just go back the way they're going out yeah, I just you know when you just go.
Speaker 1:I'm sorry. If we can keep the tardis out, then you are not escaping if we can keep the tardis out, then you are not escaping. End of discussion. Oh god, the thing literally phases through distance. He just goes. I don't care, I'm coming, I have a shield, that's nice for you. I don't know, it's like the code thing they were typing in. I'm going okay, does that open all the conduits at the same time, or how? How many other?
Speaker 2:people got there, have they got?
Speaker 1:their own little code thing they're typing in and actually, if there is, you have a silent screwdriver. Who cares?
Speaker 2:Yeah, because who's giving them, the other people, the codes? Because he implied that they were only speaking to her.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and again, if he can't get into the city, how is he accessing the system Using the dot and bubble thing? Oh, he's going. I've got a screwdriver, I press the buttons. Cool, I'm unblockable. All right, you've just made it about to be an internet troll. Yeah, okay, okay, just, and I mean this is, this is a sleep-deprived, hasn't eaten for far too many hours running on 10% me, god help us if I've actually been awake.
Speaker 1:This is a problem. You're going Doctor who. You just better watch it and go. Yeah, that makes sense in its own world. You go. I have a TARDIS, therefore I'm basically God. I can do whatever I want to, but whatever they're doing makes sense in that context. So just it just didn't yeah, that's it.
Speaker 2:It's pretty good when you look at it. If it makes sense in its own world, it's fine. Doesn't have to make sense in this world, but as long as it makes sense in its own world well, we've said that before.
Speaker 1:Whenever you write your fantasy, you need to set your rules for your fantasy world, like the 13 regeneration. So why do they exist? Why are they there? What is it a hard rule? Is it a soft rule? Bloody, bloody blood? And you go actually, if you're going to have rules, you need to stick to them, like the sonic not working on wood. Why isn't it working on wood? For because it's a screwdriver, of course. Um, yeah, it's just a whole. Yeah, if, if you're going to have, if you're going to write a fantasy piece that has a coherent story, you've got to have rules that you follow, and this didn't seem to follow anything. You go, I've just hacked into their system that I can't access because there's a shield that I can't get through, but I'm through it Because I just Did. I miss it. Was I not paying attention?
Speaker 2:No, did I get a?
Speaker 1:text message and not work out what was going on. Just.
Speaker 2:What more could you say, just?
Speaker 1:and then next week we get to see Captain Jack recast and both lose their fucking minds. So it's going to be fun, though I fucking minds. So it's going to be fantastic.
Speaker 2:I don't think it's going to be. He's not going to be Captain Jack, but he's going to be the replacement for Captain Jack he's going to be a carbon copy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it won't be like Captain John.
Speaker 2:it'll be basically a carbon copy, a roguish character that likes having sex with people that they can use instead of John Barrowman. He's going to be called somebody else, but that is who he's going to be. And they said at the end of that episode it's going to be like shock for the doctor. So I say I'm going to say that he's a time agent and he was the one that kidnapped him as a child and brought him to this galaxy or something like that. There'll be something to do with that, because Because we haven't had the time as child for at least two weeks, so a heel has something to do with it. Make it stop. One more episode before the double finale. So we're no closer.
Speaker 1:Finally a double feature.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's like old times, isn't it? It's like we'll squash all the series into this and have a double feature. Susan Twist turned up again again, didn't she? Uh, yeah, and they both recognized her this time. The one thing that I read an article on which is interesting that it's even though that wasn't a face-to-face interaction anytime she's been like physically there, the doctor hasn't looked her, hasn't had a back to, there's not been looking her in the eye so the tea lady.
Speaker 2:He had his back to her when they're in the nightclub. In the christ episode he was stood to one side. Uh, he didn't encounter at all in wales, so she's the only one that's actually seen her multiple times, so who knows? And she's apparently one of the main characters in the finale thing is this businesswoman, susan Triad, I think the actual character's name is, and the triad technology's been mentioned about three or four times over the course of things. It better pay off, alright, because I'm getting a bit. It's like Bad Wolf, but really cheap.
Speaker 1:Bad Wolf. Bad Wolf was good because it was subtle wasn't it, it was subtle.
Speaker 2:Yeah, this isn't subtle. This is like. It's like this, like this next series, when it was tortured, tortured, tortured. It's like susan twist, susan twist, susan twist. Like just waving in front of your face well, that's the thing, like bad wolf, because you weren't expecting it just it was just it's a bit graffiti here's and then suddenly you go wait a minute, that keeps.
Speaker 1:It's a recurring thing, whereas this is hello. There you go.
Speaker 2:So she's either going to have something to do with moving the story on or she's going to be directly something. Someone said that Susan Triad is an acronym for TARDIS. Stupid idea, I, I think, to be honest. Oh, we had what's the face back, didn't we? Our old next door neighbour was in 73 yards forgot about her, about knowing what a TARDIS is. Don't know, don't care.
Speaker 2:Something else, oh, random thing just jumping around you remember, in Boom the name of the name of the company, the, the arms company that had all the ambulances and stuff like that.
Speaker 1:I can't remember if it was called the M of the V.
Speaker 2:Nice little callback to way back to Are you my Mummy? Episode when Captain Jack first came in. The bomb that was in London was made by the same company and Captain Jack first came in. The bomb that was in London was made by the same company and Captain Jack referenced it and the doctor said, oh, I visited their factory. And then he said, oh yeah, they no longer existed. Their factory blew up. He said I only visited once and it's the whole concept that the doctor actually destroyed them and passed them in the future. I thought it was quite nice. I can't remember the exact line but I thought, oh yeah, it's quite a nice callback to that episode. Sorry, jumping around.
Speaker 1:I had a thought. If he had visited them once and obviously the factory's gone, then how does it appear later on?
Speaker 2:Well, yes, it's wibbly Wobbly, Tybee, wimey. Are they in the past? In the future?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Somewhere in between, who knows? Yeah, I heard I've seen a few people talk about a rumour for the finale. Would you like to hear it? Oh, intrigue me so spoilers folks. If you're listening, watching whatever, turn your ears off now. But a lot of people have said that Sean Pertwee is going to be in it playing obviously his dad, playing the third Doctor, which is interesting because you've seen the pictures of him when he went he halloween one year, didn't he?
Speaker 2:he dressed up his dad. He looks uncannily like him. Yeah, it'll be interesting, if they do it, how that figures into this whole new who concept of not talking about the past ever, unless it's a timeless child and just not doing that at all. I don't know, I've just thought of something else.
Speaker 1:Sorry, I just remembered something else.
Speaker 2:It's old Doctors. So 73 yards Doctor disappears. My son pointed this out again because he's hot on this. She sat down with Lesbeth Stewart saying oh, the doctor's not here to to protect earth anymore, so we're having to do it. Blah, blah, blah. And he said what about the other doctor, the previous one? He's still there, isn't he? And he was, wasn't he? Of course, yeah, so what you're telling me is the doctor's disappeared and his predecessor on the same timeline hasn't, has not gone. I better do something about that, haven't I? Where's my future self?
Speaker 2:gone, oh I know I'll have another cup of tea. Donna, get me some more scones. I'm not going anywhere.
Speaker 1:This is the problem. You can't have a static doctor just sitting there with his feet up going oh no, anyone's coming. Better, let that other chap sort that one out.
Speaker 2:Right, that's it. We're going to call him the static doctor from now on.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Because that's what he is. But the whole concept. Oh, the doctor's not here anymore, he's not protecting Earth. Well, you've got the other one.
Speaker 1:He's literally sat in back garden London drinking tea.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so he has to be there. You can't the worst thing, forget everything else that Russell T Davies has done, right or wrong. The worst thing he's done is left that guy alive. He should have killed him off bi-generated him and killed him because it just creates this awful black hole that anytime they write anything, anything of any importance, you can't have any. There's no fate, there's no kind of threat, because there's always going to be a second Doctor knocking about.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, at least one Doctor knocking about, because obviously by generation.
Speaker 2:They all split, didn't they? I don't want to go down that route.
Speaker 1:I hate to throw away luck, but this is a problem. Just have a set of rules. Make your rules rules. Don't fluff with them. Just have a set of bloody rules. Regeneration is a thing. Use it and this and actually like the bi-generation. Yeah, do it as a one-off and kill him.
Speaker 2:Yeah kill him. Yeah, not because the thing is the whole thing about all the other doctors being alive. That wasn't. This is where it gets really ambiguous and it's even more frustrating. That wasn't officially in the episode. That was in the commentary, where Russell was sitting there laughing with his mates going. Oh yeah, and Paul McGann. Yeah, and it's you can't say that to fandom, because it's like it's been really flippant with it. You should either say they're alive or the dead and don't make a comment about it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, they. They should have killed 14 off.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but done the book by generation and then decided die. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, having fan off, snap or something, just phase out of existence. Just, oh, I've, I've recently energy, I cease to exist. Just phase away, um, because otherwise having him sitting in donna's back back garden cheapens the whole tenth doctor sacrifice and all that.
Speaker 2:Like you're going the whole thing we talked about before.
Speaker 1:It's all, just yeah, it's yeah, stop giving him a happy ending. He doesn't need it because he just keeps going. That's why you don't need a happy ending and that's for therapy in reverse. Oh, I hate that so much. Just oh, I'm letting the rage out for a second, just again. You can't do these, yeah, you can't do these stupid, barmy, bloody, throwaway ideas and go oh yeah, I just throw it in reverse because you're now feeling better. I'm feeling better because I've done thousands of throws. We're literally the same person 10 seconds later. That's not how anything works. Have rules, stick to them.
Speaker 2:Hate it. So yeah, 73 yards was ruined because the 14th Doctor should have saved everybody and he should have come in and helped Ruby solve that mystery, and actually that would have been a really cool episode, wouldn't it, if he'd come back in helped her save himself and then wandered off again yeah and that this is a problem.
Speaker 1:Any, any earth based thing. You can literally swan in wearing a coat, fix it and go. Peace out, I'm done. I'm going to bloody Vegas.
Speaker 2:I'll fix 73 yards for us, right? So it happens the way it happens.
Speaker 2:But the blurry old woman isn't a blurry old woman, it's actually old tenant. So the whole concept is he has to save Ruby by taking her place to create that time loop, and that's how we get rid of the 14. Concept is he has to save Ruby by taking her place to create that time loop, and that's how we get rid of the 14th Doctor. He's, in fact, that person doing the side language because he has to replace it, and that's how they could have got the 14th Doctor out is have him become Gollum Doctor, just on the balls. The Gollum Doctor forever doing that thing there you go. Could have fixed it. Doctor forever doing that thing there you go, Could have fixed it. I don't know.
Speaker 1:So, jumping back, We've said this before. Is it bad?
Speaker 2:Or are we just remembering the older series with such rose-tinted spectacles that I think that is part of it, don't get me wrong, because we lived it, we went through it and it was brilliant. And those Christopher Eccleston's era, great Tennant's era, great Matt Smith's era, great Got a bit shoddy towards the end. Peter Capaldi was brilliant and again, some of his episodes were stellar episodes and then some of them were absolutely shoddy, but they were great and I think I don't know Jodie Whittaker's thing brought it down. Let's be honest, that's what broke fandom and that's not just that in isolation, the whole world had gone mad by that point anyway, gone very polarized, and it hasn't come out of polarisation yet. The whole concept of you have to pick a side and you can't be in the middle, etc. Etc. And obviously the writing has changed to the point, like we said earlier in this podcast, is who is it for? Who is Russell? Who is Russell writing this for? Is he writing it for himself, which partly I think he is? Is he writing it for himself, which partly I think he is? Is he writing it for that very niche audience that isn't straight and white and male? Yes, I think he is. Is he trying to write it to reclaim past glories, possibly? Is that working these days?
Speaker 2:Could you, as a question, release a David Tennant series? What was his best series? Probably, I think it was one with the Master in it. Martha's series is always my fave. Could you release that series today, and would it do as good as it did back then? I think it's good, telly. I think it stands up, but I don't know.
Speaker 2:TV's changed a lot, like we said, yeah, tv has changed a lot in 20 years yeah so I don't know, I think I think what you hit the nail on the head this, this, this series, hasn't got an identity, it doesn't know what it is it doesn't know who it's pitching it to, and I think that is the key, because it is pitching it to an audience that is so diverse now that it's like where, where's where's who is.
Speaker 2:They must do this marketing research inside, where they actually know who they're trying to write for. But yeah, I think partly russell's writing for himself because he can, because he's got freedom to do nowadays.
Speaker 1:I think when we're sort of saying about personality, who is the Doctor now as well? It's Not really.
Speaker 2:You've got.
Speaker 1:He hasn't. Yeah, like yes, eccleston was the post-war, coming down from the time war Tennant was the bubbly. I'm dealing with it in my own way, kind of thing oh, it was that quote, uh sorry.
Speaker 2:Yeah, carry on, there's a quote yeah, and Capaldi was very much the alien which made him yes, which I?
Speaker 2:always thought was good, brilliant, uh, right, hang on. Uh, it was the war doctor quote about when he was describing the other two, and he described 10 and 11 about who they were. It's like the man who forgets and the man who I can't remember what I was saying. It's going to annoy me now. And it was that that each doctor had a personality based on the time war. They were all anchored on the time. They were all anchored in the time war, weren't they? So you had chris reckles was anchored in time. Or tenant, uh, thank you. 11 anchored in time. Or 12, not so much, but that he had the whole concept that he was more alien. 13 was his base. Uh, because they've gone so far away from the Time War. They've kind of this whole timeless child thing is the new anchor Because they said oh yes, I might have been a foundling. This is kind of the new thing and I don't think that's working as well.
Speaker 2:Whereas the Time War was quite easy to explain because it's not a big mystery box. It was the Time Wars are all dead. Bang, the Daleks are all dead, just about Bang. The Time Owls are all dead, bang, the Daleks are all dead, just about bang. And the Doctor was the one that killed them all. That's all you needed to know. Even with the when, the War Doctor and the whole concept, we found out what happened, it still made sense Because they both forgot.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, the whole what is 15's personality? And like we joked for want of a better phrase in the early episode, it was the one who runs away and he's just going. He hasn't got that. There's no I'm going to sound cliche there's no catchphrase. There's no outfits. There's no defining traits. Trait, that's the one called defining traits. There's just what are you other than yeah, I think that's in some ways, that's another thing which they've done.
Speaker 2:They're trying to be quite quirky with it and giving him style. But the doctor, even the, had her own style.
Speaker 2:But because they keep giving him new outfits every episode. He hasn't got the defined coat, bow tie, fez, black jacket, smoky jacket, whatever you want to call it, it's all things. Oh, it's quite quirky and it's all kind of like postmodern, like post-modern, that kind of stuff, but no, there's no defining thing. Yeah, he's got that brand of the coat, which is one a couple of times which I suppose is his defining costume, but there's no. Yeah, he hasn't. And again, it's what you said. He's not had enough episodes to gain a personality really, because Christmas one doesn't count.
Speaker 2:First one Space Babies was just the exhibition dump. Second one he was in the 60s, didn't count. Third one he was still in the landmine crying for most of the episode. Fourth one he wasn't even in it, and Dot and Bubble, he wasn't really in it either. So he's not had a proper episode really in the future. So the only really in it either. So he's not had a proper episode really in the future. So in the, the only one he's had where he's actually been in it for most of it was the uh, maestro thing and he was wearing a 60s suit, so it didn't really count and the next one he's in the, I can't say he's in the past and he's wearing another costume, so he's not wearing.
Speaker 1:Oh, Elizabethan times, isn't it? Yeah, I can't say.
Speaker 2:Elizabethan, my words aren't working, so he's not even wearing a defensive costume then. So, yeah, he shouts a lot and he cries a lot and he runs away. That's all we've got so far, yeah that's Like we said.
Speaker 1:you could sum up every other Doctor in a couple of words or a short sentence, whereas 15 hasn't got it.
Speaker 2:There's the quote.
Speaker 1:Is that?
Speaker 2:intentional it might be, they've obviously written it in such a way that they don't make it there's no, he's supposed to be. I suppose you've you touched on it when you're just displeasure. He's supposed to not have any of the angst of the previous ones because he's had his therapy and he's not running away anymore and all that kind of bullshit. So maybe that's his personality, especially fun, loving and like not got any anger yeah, yeah just doing lots of things.
Speaker 2:But that's the whole point. Even the doctors of old had that kind of. That was part of their personality, that they were even before the time war. What's the word damaged?
Speaker 1:grumpy old man.
Speaker 2:Yeah, damaged Because of all the stuff they'd seen and done and didn't want to do and were forced to do. But now he's like yeah, brilliant. The quote was the man who regrets, as in 10, and the man who forgets 11. So they were all anchors to the time war in one shape or another. Those were the days, john Hurt. There you go. There was a one freaking episode and those you want to. They're big Finnish stuff.
Speaker 2:I haven't heard the ones recently where the guy who does the impression of him does some of his younger stuff. But the ones that actually John Hurt did are really good.
Speaker 1:It's worth listening to them because that's just spot on are we going to seriously end another podcast just feeling depressed?
Speaker 2:I'm still holding out for the big reveal being good.
Speaker 1:For those who are just listening Tim's face was please, god, please, just that look of just absolute, please that's all I've got left really at the moment.
Speaker 2:This next episode is going to be marred by me getting very angry at them, recasting Captain Jack because, it's what's going to happen. Let's be face it, it's going to happen, and then it's the big reveal. And the big reveal better be a good payoff, because this is what we've been fed since christmas that she is someone special. Uh, we had snow again, didn't we one of these previous episodes?
Speaker 1:yeah, 73 yards, so it's there yes, and it stopped snowing at some point yeah.
Speaker 2:So why did it stop snowing? Because the doctor wasn't there no reason, yeah who knows. So yeah, it's. Oh, they're showing it in cinemas, aren't they? Back to back? Yeah, this is going to be hilarious Midnight's showing that one person's going to turn up. If I wasn't old and we should have done it, it would have been hilarious, but we did it in a cinema once and that was funny enough. I don't think we could recapture that magic the Zoe ball.
Speaker 2:Oh god, oh no yes that was where the phrase kill it with fire was born.
Speaker 1:I hate you every second of it, didn't I no?
Speaker 2:they're showing. So the finale is in cinemas and an hour before so at 11 o'clock you can watch the previous episode in the cinema and then at 12 o'clock you can watch the latest one back to back, and russell's in a desperate plea to get people to go to the cinema. He's going to get spoiled. You don't want to get spoiled. It's going to be massive, biggest finale ever. He said Biggest finale ever, so it might end up being Spoilers. Don't turn off. If you're listening. It could be the third Doctor might be in it, but who knows? I will not be going to Sunrise at 12 midnight on June 18th. You can trust me, I will have watched it Saturday during the daytime.
Speaker 1:The problem is, if this had been like 2010, that era, we would have done it, yeah. And now it's going we just don't care and, like we said, said this is a problem. The question we keep coming back to are we even fans anymore, is it yeah?
Speaker 2:I think that whole thing with putting it on Disney Plus at midnight has ruined it, because it's like oh yeah, it's going to be really exciting. But no, if you put it in the cinemas at seven o'clock in the evening on british time, it'd be great. I would have done it, probably would have done it as well for a laugh, but it's like midnight. Oh please, I can't be arsed.
Speaker 1:And again, who is your target audience? Because if it's a family show, a midnight viewing, yeah, and I think, yes, I know they've done midnight viewings of things like Star Wars and stuff like that, because you go, yeah, I really want to see it and I've got a dedicated fan base, but this isn't that.
Speaker 2:No, and the ratings prove that they only gain an extra 2 million people from iPlayer anyway. So people aren't watching it at midnight, they just aren't. I think that's it. The excitement's not there and the enthusiasm oh yeah, we must watch it at midnight. It's not there anymore.
Speaker 1:It would have been if they'd released it at midnight in I don't get to see last week because I wasn't around and it took me until an hour and a half before recording to watch them because he's going. I just can't be bothered. Part of me is thinking I need to be fresh in my mind, just let the rage out, but by the same token I go.
Speaker 2:I just can't be asked and well yeah it's a running now, there isn't it? Three weeks, a raging episode next week and then the final, whatever that's going to be, and then that's it done. Yeah, it'll be christmas, christmas day, won't it?
Speaker 1:so are they doing both final episodes in one week or?
Speaker 2:no, it's one week after the other, so, uh, where are we? June 8th that's the one with captain jack mark 2. June 15th is part one of the finale in j.
Speaker 1:22nd is part two of the finale, but they're showing a back to back in the cinema on the 22nd, so you've watched the previous week's episode at 11pm and then you watch that episode at 12pm oh, if it's only 12.45, it's going to finish.
Speaker 2:No, I can't do the podcast with the car park?
Speaker 1:yeah, I don't want to get to go to that cinema. That's the problem for throwing people to the screen I can't face, I can't face every ball again. Oh, she won't be there, she's long gone.
Speaker 2:Let's just see if it's. I don't even if it's on on at my cinema. I don't think it's on at like loads of cinemas, like it was in the past. Uh, oh yeah, doctor, who in cinemascouk? No, it's not on, geez yeah it's not.
Speaker 1:Where is it on?
Speaker 2:Let's have a look, without saying where we live. Oh no, I stand corrected. It is on at my cinema Starting at 10.45. And then the next one is Hang on, let's just see if that is. Oh, I stand corrected. It looks quite busy. There's a lot of seats booked out, Really. Yeah, it's quite surprising that let's turn up. Let's have a look at your one. Yeah, there's your one Changes. I don't want to log in. Can I see? Can I see the seats I have to pick? Let's just pick that random Confirm tickets. Your one's a tidy screen. There's a few people. It's not as busy as my one. My one's got a massive screen. It seems to be quite full. So people are turning up in your place too.
Speaker 1:Well, perhaps I might have to go just to see who the audience's stupid show is.
Speaker 2:That's weird. I genuinely didn't think it would be that busy, but there you go.
Speaker 1:Well, like the Metro said, it's not for us. I really sound jaded about that, don't I?
Speaker 2:It's like the only article that came out. They haven't done any more inflammatory articles since that first week. I wonder why it's all gone a bit quiet. Ah well.
Speaker 1:There we are. We have shouted for a little while yeah, still positive Six out.
Speaker 2:I'm still positive Still positive. Six out of ten. Still positive.
Speaker 1:It'll drain out of me over the next three weeks. Yeah, so next week we get to do it all again and see Tim have an actual meltdown on podcast. Yeah, so this crime detector is going to be.
Speaker 2:It's coming, it's going to be Captain Jack's coming. It's going to be Captain Jack Mark 2. It's going to be something like that. That's all it's going to be. Garen Dam to you.
Speaker 1:It's going to be Captain Jack's, isn't it? It's spelled with like a Q-U-E-S or an X. I'm calling it now J 8X.
Speaker 2:It's going to be like that, isn't it? Yeah, captain Jack's darling, he's going. Yes, that's the one. No, and it'll be. He delivered the baby when the doctor was a child. Or he's a dad, who knows?
Speaker 1:It could be his dad, or it could be.
Speaker 2:Ruby, or he's another doctor, that knows. Yeah, it could be his dad, yeah, or it could be Ruby, or he's another doctor. That'll be what it is. He's just another doctor.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because they're just ten a penny now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they're everywhere. Yeah, it's Ruby, he's just Ruby.
Speaker 1:Eight went away and regenerated a few times, and this is a different version from another timeline for a multiverse of doctors.
Speaker 2:On that note we need to go for today before we just go off on one Rightio. More shaking those fists at clouds next week.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Until then, ta-ra to be old.