Journeys in Fandom
Step into the world of fandom with Matt and Tim as they take you on a wild ride through the pop culture universe. This isn't just any podcast - it's a journey with two mates who are unapologetically passionate about all things comics, film, TV and more.
Journeys in Fandom
Doctor Who: Boom Review
Ever found yourself at the centre of a whirlwind, where passionate debates swirl like leaves in an autumn gale? Strap in as we navigate the tumultuous Doctor Who fandom, where recent episodes have sparked existential wonderings and fiery articles have fueled the flames of discourse. We tackle the slippery slope of TV ratings in an age where streaming platforms like iPlayer and Disney Plus reign supreme while championing the art of thoughtful critique over the seductive pull of sensationalism.
Join us as we dissect Boom, the latest narrative from the Doctor Who universe, examining its ambitious foray into themes of anti-capitalism and the haunting spectres of war and whether it's directness of its message may resonate differently across continents. We find nuggets of admiration amidst our disappointment, proving that even within the chaos, there's always room for thoughtful analysis.
Embark on a speculative journey with us as we draw parallels between Susan Twist's enigmatic appearances and the legendary "Bad Wolf" lore. Theories abound like stars in the night sky as we analyze the significance of each cameo and wonder whether she is, in fact, the big bad.
Hello and welcome to episode 21 of Journeys in Fandom.
Speaker 2:Yay, we're back again, Yay.
Speaker 1:And we don't know if we're going to be grumpy or not, but we'll soon find out, I think is the case.
Speaker 2:I think, as we said last week, this series is going to answer that immortal question of are we actually Doctor who fans anymore? Yes, the immortal question Because after last week we were having doubts. Let's say Existential crises yes, For those that saw the last episode, I think we just ended with our heads, heads in our hands, just crying quietly. Just why? Why is it, oh dear, speaking continue?
Speaker 1:oh yeah, I gotta say, speaking of crying quietly, so that quickly, when you're drunk, obviously uh fandom was, uh was at war again, uh, after last weekend and yes even, I'll say even the press waded in. The press did wade in. They waded in with some rather inflammatory articles about various things to do with fandom which, uh, in this world of trying to be the Switzerland of Doctor who, it kind of is quite difficult when that kind of happens. It stokes up the argument even more. I think, and I think some of it is unnecessary.
Speaker 2:Because there was that one I shared with you, wasn't there? Oh the.
Speaker 1:Metro one.
Speaker 2:Dear white men, doctor who's not for you and I was going fuck off love. Oh, yes, that was.
Speaker 1:That was the one that the metro had to shut down their twitter account because they got so much backlash for it. Uh yeah, it wasn't a great article either. That it wasn't even. There was no real articulated argument in it. It was just a bit of a hit piece getting on the bandwagon and stuff like that, which didn't help matters. In fact, it just didn't inflame things even more.
Speaker 2:And I think, thinking about it like if we are positive or negative about something, I think we like to articulate why we feel that way. Um, it's and yes, it is a a gut reaction, because we literally watched the episode an hour ago for well, for me at least um, but it's a considered viewpoint. At the same time, it's not just let's do it for likes and clicks, guys.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because, actually, yeah, we, we care about what we're saying and actually, yes, it's a short-term reaction, but it it you think about what you're saying before you say it and something like that madra article was just absolute garbage yeah, because it was.
Speaker 1:It was throwing all sorts of tropes in there and yeah I'd hate to gatekeep, but the person who wrote it only started watching doctor who from david tenant's first run and at no point through any.
Speaker 1:She ignored christopher eccleston's run completely and then didn't really reference anything after david tenant. It was just david tenant's run and that was it. So it's. If you're going to throw an argument, throw a statement out there like uh, doctor, who isn't, has never been for straight white men, at least back it up with more than just a little bit of history from the last 15 years. But no, it was unnecessary stoking.
Speaker 2:Admittedly that it did result in some hilarious moments, like um nev fountains tweet with uh nicola brian and the picture of perry holding an implement, looking um, we'll look on her face, let's say.
Speaker 1:And leela, just a picture of lila, yeah yeah, uh, yeah, come on, guys, get over it. Yeah, it's unnecessary, but it was inevitable. It was going to happen. And the other side of the coin was equally as enraged and where I've watched some youtube, some youtube things are quite reason. Other people, like you say, are just on the bang wagon for clicks and for for views, and there's some people who aren't doctor who fans, but are still enraged and angry. But they're not, they don't watch it, but they still feel the need to comment on it anyway, anyway anyway.
Speaker 1:Ratings there aren't that many ratings that are in. Uh, we've got only the overnights from last week, but then, because of this new way of doing things, it's all like we've talked about before.
Speaker 1:Ratings mean nothing these days, anyway yeah but the ratings are just completely all up in the air. I'm surprised we've not had the plus seven by now. Obviously it's been seven days, but it's a bit odd. So obviously the first episode did 2.6 million and the second episode did 2.4 million. The only thing that stands out I'm ignoring the 2.6 before, it's not good, but this means nothing is they lost 200, 000 people between two episodes, which I thought was a bit odd I wonder what that is.
Speaker 2:A percentage of the audience? So actually 2.62, point four, that's a that's a, there's a drop. That's a fair few not watching the second one. But is it time of year? Is it the fact that time of time? Time when it's on? So actually I've watched the first one or catch the second one.
Speaker 1:I play a kind of thing, yeah, and some people made the excuse it was the good good weather.
Speaker 2:I don't believe that, but it's so difficult to judge anything on ratings now because, like for us, we're not watching it on TV, we're watching it on iPlayer. Are you watching it on Player Disney Plus? Yeah, yeah, iplayer, yeah, and that's the thing. I've not watched telly for well, standard terrestrial telly, let's say for so long now that I wonder why I have a TV license.
Speaker 1:Oh, we went into that before, didn't we?
Speaker 2:Yeah, literally my TV licence is I pay for Doctor who and yeah, it's a weird feeling. So, yeah, hopefully it's just going to get better.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I always am a bit dubious of internet ratings anyway, because, whether it's disney, netflix, whoever they control the ratings, this isn't an independent thing.
Speaker 1:So they can manipulate it however they want this. There was talk, uh, about I don't know how they people get it and how they quantify it the drop-off ratings for streaming. So when someone clicks on a show, that counts as a rating, but it's the time it takes people to disconnect from the show that they follow as well. So if everyone disconnects at the same point, they can go. Well, what was going on in the show at that point for making people disconnect?
Speaker 2:And if people disconnect all over the show, they haven't got a pattern, so they can't work it out interesting stuff, but 2.4, 2.6, yeah talking of streaming, um, the fact that multiple streaming services now have adverts and like amazon, having adverts mid-show, yeah, yeah, it's like, dare I say it, the terrestrial telly days. You kind of go oh it's halfway through our third episode, oh, look, an advert. It's funny. You can't fast-forward them anymore. So when you're recording something you're, oh, it's an advert, fast-forward that's fine. But now they're on Skipper ads again and oh god, we're back it's interesting you say that because america now they're doing streaming.
Speaker 1:It's a bit. We've got a little bit in here, sky do a bit, but they're doing streaming bundles in america where you can get hulu, disney plus hbo and everyone in america saying this is just cable, this is we've just gone full circle. This is now buying and you could, because, like sky, yeah, you can get netflix, sky and I think that's it for now, but you can see in the future. You just get a bundle and I don't want it's like oh yeah, it's gone full circle, back to where we started from, where you haven't got a choice. You've got to take everything or you're spending a fortune on separate things yeah, it's a circle of crap and it consumes us all.
Speaker 1:Is that a nice segue into the episode?
Speaker 2:review, or is that a bit harsh? Is that a bit harsh? Let's find out, shall we?
Speaker 1:It's your intro to this episode, so take it away, Timmy. Well, it would be a shame not to change the background for this review, even though it might not be as grumpy as last time. Oh did you get any feedback on the level of grumpiness last time? Normally your feedback.
Speaker 2:I did not. I did not. Admittedly, my feedback has been away on holiday, mainly Fair enough. But a lot of people that I spoke to the day after recording were very much what the hell was this? Or, like my partner, she was sort of saying oh, I really liked Inks Monsoon, but actually the rest of it was all garbage. And again yeah, I'm feeling, you feeling yeah yeah, I didn't. I didn't hear anyone turn around and say that was really good.
Speaker 1:I really enjoyed it yeah, I think that second episode was the kind of the. The first one was whatever. The second one was the contentious one. It was the marmite episode. The other liked it or he didn't there was no middle ground no, yeah, space babies and even some of the, even some of the positive youtubers.
Speaker 1:You could see them struggling to say good things about the first episode, but acknowledging it was just a exposition dump. That's basically what everybody said. It's just yeah, they've just gone blah and spat it all out yeah, not many people like the musical number at the end of the second one.
Speaker 2:That seemed to be the consensus that it was no one like the musical number.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was shoehorned in and it was a waste of time. So, yeah, that was the main thing I got out of it. People like people who liked it, didn't like that last bit and said it was, it was waste. Why did they do it?
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah, yeah, just bleh. So Right, this is boom, boom. Stephen Moffat. Stephen Moffat back writing individual episodes in an RTD series.
Speaker 1:It's like the old days, isn't it, yeah? So what do you think about?
Speaker 2:it and I think I liked it with a caveat.
Speaker 2:Oh right, I liked it when it was him and her with a landmine and doing all the things. But then, as soon as I started adding in extra characters like the woman, priest, soldier, marine, yeah, monday, yeah, I just it just began to unravel a lot of the whole, all of the ambulances all turning up and going oh yes, and then the whole AI oh look, look, I've infected one. It's now taking down the whole algorithm. We have a thing that couldn't do that. So I think it started strong. It was going well, I'm going, yes, yes. And then went, oh, stick landing. You haven't quite stuck it.
Speaker 1:I liked it. I thought it was good Compared to the last two. Anything's better than that.
Speaker 2:Oh good yeah.
Speaker 1:No, I genuinely thought, compared to the last two, anything's better than that, oh good. No, I generally thought it was a really good storyline. I think it was and this is all the way through new who, since since 2005, it was an episode that could have been a two-parter but could have been an old school doctor who thing, because the mystery over who they were fighting I caught. I got it pretty quickly, but you could imagine that storyline spanning where it becomes more and more evident that they're not fighting anybody, they fight themselves and that would have been a really nice slow burn storyline over two episodes and stuff like that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was kind of rushed through, but I like that concept, the concept of actually it's all about and I'm sure people will moan, oh capitalism, anti-capitalist, anti-war, but it was a nice. I didn't mind that message. For once I didn't mind the message of that because it was quite cleverly done.
Speaker 2:The only thing I didn't get.
Speaker 1:And you is how did the algorithm? How did they start dying? It didn't, obviously, as the war was going on. How were they getting killed? Were they getting killed with their own weapons? It didn't make sense to me how they were dying in the war that they weren't fighting that. That because I couldn't work that out, is okay. Yeah, they're fighting somebody else but how did they?
Speaker 2:I know, like at the end of the episode they they were sort of saying, oh yeah, so what first thing? They announced they were there, which then puts the algorithm in place which then is causing casualties for whatever reason like I suppose it's just yeah, and again, like the guy who's?
Speaker 2:blinded, you go. Well. Actually, how were you blinded if you're fighting no one? Was it friendly fire? Was it a bloody random? Was it a random mine thing? Yeah, it's kind of like this Suddenly the tech that you're using is now working against you to cause casualties at the correct rate to keep the war going.
Speaker 1:yadda, yadda, yadda yeah the concept of that thought was clever. Yeah, yeah it. The concept of that thought was clever and it could have been a longer episode and it would have gone. That would have been good, but no, I enjoyed it. It was a good close quarters Doctor who episode with not many people.
Speaker 2:I think the landmine worked quite well with them saying what it does. It takes the entity that it's stood on it and uses its own molecule, molecules, even as a bomb, and when it was going well. Actually that's bad, because I I'm an entity that isn't like normal, but I'm going to like literally nuke your planet. Yeah, that was good. That was good.
Speaker 1:I think what I did think is America will hate the episode.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, yeah, you can see Again the whole force. You can see the American spin on the whole series, like the whole force of prayers and you just go. Oh guys, yeah, you know that a very large project is going to hate it probably.
Speaker 1:It was unsubtle again but for whatever reason I didn't mind it on this one because there was, there was some nice, there were some nice takes on the concept of faith and death and stuff like that which I just thought, oh yeah, some nice beats there. And it was nice to see they brought back the, the, the vicars, whatever they called the the from. Oh, the weeping angels episodes from way way way back.
Speaker 1:That was nice. So when they first popped up was like, oh, I know who they are, so that was quite cool. They kept them because I always thought it was a cool concept that the religious people became soldiers in the future. I thought that was what they did years ago. I thought that was good. So, uh, interesting stuff, but it was very much a close quarters episode, wasn't it? It wasn't all spanning it was very much.
Speaker 2:This was a small set, small cast, claustrophobic episode which actually, if you think back to Moffat's good episodes Blink, it's the same thing. You keep a very small cast, a very tight area that you're doing it in and just rely on that to make your story. It's not big bombastic stuff, it's just quite focused in.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's quite true and I think actually the focus-ness-ness-ness of it toned down Shooty's performance. So the last ones he's been like space babies it's all over the place, this one because he couldn't move and he it toned him down a bit and it toned her down a bit as well, because I was trying to think why over the last week, why what grated on me with ruby, because I really like ruby and I couldn't work it out. I think it's because she went from not knowing much in christmas to being a bit of a know-it-all in the space of a very short space of time. And this one flipped it again because she didn't know everything and, okay, she got shot and stuff like that. But that was what I think was annoying me last week was she suddenly was a know-it-all and she can't be a know-it-all because she'd only been doing literally two trips with him.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but I think there was a throwaway line in that second episode that said they'd been together for like seven months at that point. Oh, I missed that. I assumed it was. I also missed it. But someone the next day said oh, there was literally a one-throwaway line.
Speaker 1:I'll have to go back and have a look. Yeah, that would excuse.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah, that would change it a bit, Because, yeah, if this is like trip number two get you to hell kind of thing, but yeah, if you've been together a few months, then maybe.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, they always kind of shoehorn all the comics and the books and stuff in the gaps don't they but that was interesting, but yeah, toning him down seemed Now that could be a writer's thing rather than just a performance thing. But he came across a lot better in this episode than he did in the previous ones and a lot more knowledgeable.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was. It was a grounded performance rather than the yeah, I'm just everywhere kind of stuff, yeah it was, yeah it good.
Speaker 1:I enjoyed all of it across. I think we need to talk about I've got it here because I can't remember her name Susan Twist. She's been every episode. Now it's becoming Bad.
Speaker 2:Wolf on steroids so she was right.
Speaker 1:Here we go, space Babies. I didn't realize she was in, that I did, and I forgot she was one of the crew members who'd done her message before they left, obviously. The second one she was the tea lady. She was all the ambulances. She's definitely going to be in the next episode. She's been Isaac Newton's assistant and I'm sure she was in something else at Christmas as well, definitely. Now the thing is, is next episode going to be her story arc finished or is she going to be the big bad, bad wolf thing that's going to run to the end of the series? I'll be interested to see, but she's definitely like today.
Speaker 2:It was obvious she was in it yeah, she was, because how many, how many episodes are in this? It's eight, isn't it eight? And we've had three.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we've had three, so next week is halfway yes so yeah, if you're going to reveal a big bad and run it in the series, that's not a bad time to do it because there was someone on tiktok who was theorizing about it and he had quite a good theory about stuff and he said that there's a and he showed a picture and I, mess, commented on it and said where's that picture from? And he hasn't replied of there's a picture of Russell having an interview in his office and there's a like a picture of a magazine cover on his wall and it's her in the magazine cover with a different name and it's like is that a prop? Is that a deliberate thing? He's put there as a bit of a thing. And then there's something to do with triad systems, which apparently there was. I saw that there was an advert on the bus in one. I think it was christmas episode or one of the previous 60th ones or something like that, I can't remember, and that's something to do with it. But yeah, she's all over the place and definitely in this one. So interesting to see, to see if it's revealed next week or not.
Speaker 2:That will be interesting indeed. What did you think of? Obviously we had when Ruby got shot. We have oh look, the snow's back.
Speaker 1:Yes, again, I didn't mind it. This week it was kind of, yeah, what's going on with that? Well, she was obviously going to die, so it wasn't as if she was. Well, she's not a Time Lord because she's not going to regenerate, so we can scratch that off the list of what is she. She's not immortal, because she would have just kipped up from that and kept moving. So she's something, but that's the second time she's been in peril and the snow's fallen and time's slowed down. So what's all that about?
Speaker 2:Yeah, because again in the episode you had the bad CG snowflake just on his own, just there.
Speaker 1:I don't know. It's interesting. I hadn't realised until I read it afterwards that the other is the actress is the new companion. Monday Flynn was and I look over here because I had to read it Verada Sethu, who's going to be the new companion and Russell yeah, I didn't realise that as well.
Speaker 1:And Russell put out a statement afterwards saying Monday Flynn's story's finished, but we're going to get all timey-wimey. You're going to have to find out what happens with her, the actress next series. So it's obviously they're going to reference it. I hope it's not just a simple thing of like I had a sister, martha's yeah, uh, where it was, and gwen cooper's ancient, where they actually reference it.
Speaker 1:That'll be a bit naff. I hope it is genuine. I suppose it could be Clara all over again, isn't it? I don't know, but she was good. I thought she was a good actress in this, so there is high hopes you said the bad word. No, Clara.
Speaker 2:Oh, I did it again. He did Just hate it. No, I didn't.
Speaker 1:I had twig that at all and then. So my impressions of her as an actress oh, she's quite good, and there's, oh, she's gonna be a new companion. She's gonna be good. So we shall watch this space on that one.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so ranking the episodes. So Christmas 1, 2, 3 Christmas what would be your best and worst?
Speaker 1:Best one, I still think, would be Christmas, then Boom, then Space Babies and then Devil's Chord as the worst, I think.
Speaker 2:For me, boom out of the four I enjoyed most. Christmas comes second. Devil's Chord comes third, simply because I hate Space Babies, just I hate the CGI babies. Anything else but oh yeah it's literally like fourth and basically fourth, but yeah, just Space Babies make it worse.
Speaker 1:Devil's Accord is worse just because of the missed opportunity and I said that in the last episode they could have done that. So much different Views from an eight-year-old. The new section as we do so I sub-watched it.
Speaker 1:He said it was boring. He said it was all in one place and there was lots of talking which actually is a fair point, actually and the moment he saw the trailer for the next episode, it was outside. He was like, yay, they're outside, so that's an interesting concept. He had a really good insight which made me go oh, that's a really cool thing, because when you saw the ambulance from a distance and it was all like blurry, he said, oh, he's like the daleks.
Speaker 1:And I just suddenly had a real thought of how you have a cool story where you're on a battlefield and the Daleks are ambulances, and the concept of that would have just been really flipped on its head and I thought, oh, wow, that's a really interesting storyline there, where they've been converted into ambulances and they're just kind of driving around and people don't realise who or what they are. I thought it was quite good. So what else did he think? He thought the doctor was going to regenerate. He said, oh, he's gonna change his face. I was like not yet. And then, when she got shot, he said, oh, is she gonna change her face?
Speaker 2:I was like I don't know at that point I was wondering uh, is she glowing?
Speaker 1:yet what's going on? Yeah, so he's got the, he's got the concept of that.
Speaker 2:No, but yeah, he didn't like he, he thought it was boring because it was just lots of talking and no, no action, which is fair but is that more like an older who style episode where actually some of them not a lot happened and it was a lot of talking like I'm thinking like not not new who, but yeah, yeah, classic yeah yeah, um, and you just go.
Speaker 2:Well, actually, yeah, that's. There were a few episodes like that where you talk it out and, yes, running around being a clever man in a room is great and all, but sometimes you just need to change your pace yeah, that's it. I also think if episode one had been on its own and episode two and three had been back to back, I think I would have liked episode three even more because of that jarring change of pace. You literally went from singing and dancing and badness to a proper grounded, tight, tight story.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, That'd be interesting. Yeah, because the pace definitely did change. It'd be interesting. Let's have a look. Who's writing all the episodes? We looked at this last week, didn't we? Just to see who's writing the next ones. There's not many different writers besides Russell this time around. So a quick look. Where are you? 15th Doctor yeah, Russell's right in the next one. Oh, no, yeah, Apart from episode six called Rogue, which is that one, the Bridgerton Captain Jack, hopefully not thing. All the rest of them are written by him which is interesting.
Speaker 2:Yeah, are we going to lose our minds when Captain Jack gets recast?
Speaker 1:Oh, I hope it's not going to happen. Let's go all the way back to yeah, I'm just looking back in the first ever Eccleston thing. Yeah, russell wrote the majority of them. Oh, gattis Paul Cornell, is there a Gattis Paul Cornell?
Speaker 2:Is there a Gattis episode this season?
Speaker 1:No, that's it. It's the only change. Is that one that we flinched at last time? Kate Heeran and Bryony Redman Kate Heeran was the one who wrote for Loki.
Speaker 2:Which episode is the Loki episode?
Speaker 1:Episode six. So not next week, but no two weeks time. One, two, three weeks time.
Speaker 2:Ah yes, the Not Captain Jack episode Fantastic.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:It's going to be fine. It's going to be fine, Tim we can get through it.
Speaker 1:Next week's episode looks really good. Actually, I'm quite looking forward to that one, yeah.
Speaker 2:It look a bit creepy. Yes, that's going to be. That should be good, hopefully. Fingers crossed.
Speaker 1:Of course, it was revealed this week that Stephen Moffat's writing the Christmas episode this year.
Speaker 2:Yes, I just scrolled down.
Speaker 1:So yeah, he's a obviously already written it.
Speaker 2:Now, from memory, didn't Moffat write some proper clangers of Christmas episodes?
Speaker 1:I'm scrolling up as we speak to see who wrote.
Speaker 2:I want to say it's like Space Fish, the.
Speaker 1:Christmas carols.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Katherine Jenkins' singing one.
Speaker 1:The date date. Yep, he wrote Christmas Carol and he wrote Doctor the Witch in the Wardrobe, or the Widow in the Wardrobe, I should say he wrote the Snowmen. That wasn't a too bad one Time of the Doctor Well, that doesn't really count, because that was obviously the 50th Last Christmas. What was that one? I don't even remember that. What?
Speaker 2:was that one.
Speaker 1:Oh, santa Claus, yes, I do Missed Opportunity. Another annoying one. Yeah, husbands of River Song, god awful. Return of Doctor Mysterio. No one remembers that. Twice Upon a Time he wrote that one and that was good. That's one with his regeneration episode with.
Speaker 2:Thingamabob, that was good.
Speaker 1:Yes, majority forgettable yeah.
Speaker 2:So, yes, majority forgettable, yeah, yeah. So we've established with Moffat you let him write one episode in a series that's just on its own standalone and solid. Don't let me Christmas and don't let me be a showrunner.
Speaker 1:But I suppose in some ways he's not show running it, so you never know, it might turn out All right.
Speaker 2:We can dream.
Speaker 1:Oh, dear Right, I think we've come to an end of. It was only one episode this week, so we're a bit of a short short, I think that's because we had a episode to talk through and last week we had two episodes to yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think what the consensus is yeah.
Speaker 2:We always find when we're angry about something, we talk about it more. Yes, when we enjoy it, we go yeah, it was good yeah it was good Cool.
Speaker 1:Right Move on.
Speaker 2:Yeah, god, yes. So this Cool Right move on Double.
Speaker 1:God, yes, so there's an episode next week, but we're not recording next week, we're recording the week after, with a double bill because we're busy.
Speaker 2:Yes indeed, yes indeed.
Speaker 1:We don't want to trust hotel Wi-Fi.
Speaker 2:No, we do not. What could possibly go wrong Cool?
Speaker 1:I have no idea Well.
Speaker 2:I think we've reached a point.
Speaker 1:Yes, I don't know if it's an end, but it's definitely a point Amicable end to the episode this week.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we didn't need the old man's Chaucer Clouds background.
Speaker 1:No, no, I think I will keep it on for every review, just in case.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we'll just be prepared and ready, yes, so yeah, I guess, on that note, it's time to say goodbye from me.
Speaker 1:Goodbye from. So yeah, I guess, on that note, it's time to say goodbye from me, goodbye from me, bye.