Speaker 1: 0:06

Hello and welcome to Dresden fandom episode 11 and today we are doing the big first review of the Doctor who 60th anniversary, episode 1. He's already got his head in his hands, the Star.

Speaker 2: 0:22

Beast. Yes, so we've not talked to each other at all about what we fought. This is literally our first thoughts. Did you watch it live? I?

Speaker 1: 0:35

did watch it live. Yes, First time I've watched Doctor who live proper for a long time.

Speaker 2: 0:40

I confess I got home late so I had to jump on my player so I watched it live 10 minutes late in the phone. Else, yeah, I've thrown off. But it felt live, it was live enough.

Speaker 1: 0:50

Live-ish. Yes, so what did you think?

Speaker 2: 0:59

Well, I think Tenant is back and I love him. Yes, kaffir, and Tate is back and I love her. Yeah, I think the whole opening, the whole it's new but the same I loved. I thought the meep was cool. It was like a proper practical costume.

Speaker 1: 1:26

Yeah, well, come on, which is quite nice. It was good. Yeah, the look of it was very good. Yeah, what do you?

Speaker 2: 1:32

think it's the most cool you've ever been. Yeah, you've got a face You're doing the face.

Speaker 1: 1:45

You're doing the face. Let's start with the positive Budget. They've got a budget, haven't they?

Speaker 2: 1:52

I like some of the stuff.

Speaker 1: 1:54

I like some of the stuff they've done with the budget, with the shots, with the special effects, with the creature stuff. I thought I was good. Tenant is most definitely back and, as, going against what we discussed in our preview episode, he is ten. There is no change of personality, really, from my perspective, at the moment he seems to be the same.

Speaker 2: 2:17

You say that he did reference a couple of times to see he goes oh, I love you when he goes. Oh, I do that now, do I? Then you think, oh yeah, it's 10A isn't it. It's 10 with a couple of tweaks. It's like the brainly specs, the brainly specs, but they're a different design. The screwdriver has got more abilities.

Speaker 1: 2:40

Oh yes.

Speaker 2: 2:41

Yeah, but it's a different design. The suit is a tight fitting suit, but actually now it's a waistcoat. It's just. Yeah, it's the same but slightly different.

Speaker 1: 2:55

Yeah, okay, actually, there's the phrase it's the same but slightly different is probably something I would describe this entire experience.

Speaker 1: 3:06

Yeah, oh no, I'm just trying to be. I don't know where to go with it. I think I need to come out and say it and just get it out. It wasn't a good episode. I didn't. I felt it was weak. The storyline was weak, it's underneath it there was nothing. It just felt very and I know why and I'll come to why I think it is but it didn't feel like anything special. It felt like it actually felt like an opening episode for a series, really, which is kind of what it is. That's where I'm kind of getting at. If that was, if this was series, whatever. On 15, is it 14? I can't remember where, what the numbering system is.

Speaker 2: 3:52

On at the moment.

Speaker 1: 3:53

Whatever it is now, that would be a good opening episode, wouldn't it? Introduces a companion, introduces a family, introduces a doctor, introduces a unit, and it'd be done. I suppose it goes back to what we said last time, the expectations on it being a 60th anniversary, but very much as three episodes, but it didn't feel like anything special. It was just like oh right, it's just introducing Dr Donna, lots of that. My son picked up on the thing that I picked up for the storyline. He said very many seven years old said it got to a point when it all got rushed. And it was right, wasn't it? It was like a point and it just kind of fell off a cliff. The storyline just went whoa and it ended really quickly. It felt like a Moffat episode where there was a big red button that just got switched.

Speaker 2: 4:43

Is that the 45 minute format?

Speaker 1: 4:47

Was it 45? I wasn't paying attention.

Speaker 2: 4:49

Yeah, no, it was on the classic 45 minute format. So you have 20 minutes build up, you have a second act, something happens and then suddenly the third act is on you and it has to be finished because to get the episode done and wrapped up, and especially if you're then setting up for a mini series, you don't have any time to do the cool stuff. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 5:19

I suppose I've looked to it was 45 minutes.

Speaker 2: 5:22

Was it 45, 50?

Speaker 1: 5:24

It didn't feel like an hour. I haven't got it up. It didn't feel like an hour to me either. I don't think it was. I think it was about 45 minutes.

Speaker 2: 5:34

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 5:34

But it certainly wasn't like a full hour episode. I was expecting an hour, but it wasn't an hour. I don't think.

Speaker 2: 5:44

Now, that's the old classic. What could we do in 45? So what did we think to Rose?

Speaker 1: 5:57

Oh, correction, it was an hour, sorry, 6.30 to 7.30. Was it?

Speaker 2: 6:02

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 6:02

Yeah, According to the schedule Didn't feel like an hour did it? Felt short. When did it last? 15 minutes go, Exactly. It got to the point where the doctor was kind of working out what was going on and then suddenly the doctor worked out what was going on in the next scene. For me it should have had a little bit more kind of detective-y type work, possibly, Because then my son said he said, yeah, it could have done with an extra 10 minutes to explain all that.

Speaker 2: 6:34

And I thought you know he's quite a stupe.

Speaker 1: 6:36

He's quite right Seeing as the first proper episode of Doctor who he's probably ever watched. That was quite good, but sorry, yes, an hour. What do we think of Rose? Oh, I don't. I think and I'm going to be diplomatic here that choice of storyline and I'm not judging anyone or anything will alienate the fan base that have already been alienated by the 13th Doctor. Being a Woman, I don't think that's going to do anything to unite the fandom like we thought it might, like we thought bringing RTD back. It's only because at the moment all that happened. At the end I laughed out loud and my son said what are you laughing at? I said, don't worry, it's just a adult joke, because I knew what the reaction on YouTube is going to be like tomorrow, when all the people who do not like the way a lot of things are going in Hollywood and TV are just going to use that as fodder for that continued division. And I looked at it and just went oh dear, that's not going to do any good, is it really?

Speaker 1: 7:47

And I know why they've done it and I know RTD's been very vocal about it and I can understand everything they've done. But this new series of Doctor who and the one coming after it isn't going to do anything to solve those divisions in fandom. It's just going to make it worse, I think I think as a character fine as a way of solving the Doctor Donner problem. It was cheap and very. It reminded me of Rose in the Parallel Universe, clara Never Dying, and all those cheap. They haven't got the balls to kill someone off thing Because we talked about it, didn't we. Are they going to kill off Donner? We're blatantly not anymore, are they?

Speaker 1: 8:35

No they've seen the Moffat Big Red Reset button. They've just reset it in one go and so, ignoring all the fuss around how they did it, they've just done it and they've just reset it and they've made it. And it's like, ah, that's cheapened her whole story arc. Now it's like, oh, it's done, it was clever because you called it something about, didn't you, her daughter being something to be a key to something, or it might be to do with a daughter. It kind of half was, wasn't it?

Speaker 2: 9:07

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 9:08

But at the same time it was just like rushed and a little bit chilly.

Speaker 2: 9:13

Admittedly, I found when he's going. Well, actually, I've still got to fix this problem, because now it affects both of you and they go. Well, we'll just fix it. Oh, that was.

Speaker 1: 9:21

We'll just delete the problem, because you're a man, a male time lord, you don't understand. But they're not real time lords. So, regardless of all the wokeness around it and all that kind of stuff, they're not time lords and that's what has been there before Clara with Rose or everything else. You're not time lords, so don't say that. And it was just like yeah, the Big Red Reset button it's like oh right, okay, so Donna's just going to be a normal companion now and there's no threat to it. It would have been better if, like you said in the previous thing, if there was a timer on her now that she was going to die and they had to do something to fix it but that's what I thought was going to happen that she'd turn into the Doctor Donna and have two episodes for him to fix it.

Speaker 2: 10:09

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 10:10

But he chose. Instead we had 45 seconds and it was. And even when she died in his arms, it was like cheap, because it felt really rushed. It felt if they built up over three episodes to that scene and then done it, it would have had a little bit more emotion. But it was just like, oh, we're going to fix this now because Catherine takes in it for two episodes now. Oh yeah, we've done it. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 10:33

Did you when the um the the chamber got bisected? Yeah?

Speaker 1: 10:42

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 10:42

Did you have a wolf flashback, oh God they're just separate by glass? Are we going to have a whole yeah again.

Speaker 1: 10:52

I think by yeah, it's that, it was. It was. I don't know if Bernard Cribbins is in it. He did film a scene, didn't he? Because he was in a wheelchair. I've seen some on set photos, but I thought they were going to have will burn a crib in it. But maybe they're going to do it at the end. Yeah, but it yeah. I don't know whether it was meant to be like that, but it just felt like, oh, are we going to have this? But I don't know. I think the thing for me as well is and this is a personal thing I never really liked the whole Dr Donna idea. Anyway, when it was first done, there's kind of smart Alec David Tennant impression, and then when you had both of them doing it, it's like oh God. So I wasn't exactly enamored by that anyway.

Speaker 1: 11:41

So, it's a shame because it was a clever concept that felt really rushed and could have been done, could have spread out the tension a bit. Depends what they're going to do with the rest of it, I guess.

Speaker 2: 11:56

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 11:57

I don't know.

Speaker 2: 11:58

So the only way is up, isn't it?

Speaker 1: 12:02

Well, positives the TARDIS looks really nice interior. Yeah, Again, love the budget on that. That looks awesome.

Speaker 2: 12:10

That doesn't really, I think the the inner tenant fanboy and all your beautiful is running around.

Speaker 1: 12:15

Yes, this is beautiful. I love it. I'm having three of those in this is going to be great. I think I have to watch confidential, because I'm sure there's going to be a clip of him recording that for the first time, because that was really cool and that was a nice yeah simple design.

Speaker 2: 12:30

again I did smile when I mean he's always got a coffee machine and she's always got far from my office. But in computer and when we know exactly what's going to happen, love, did she spill a coffee?

Speaker 1: 12:38

because I blinked to miss that. Or did the TARDIS just? She did right?

Speaker 2: 12:43

No, she literally said I'm going to do it. Then walk around the TARDIS for a minute and then just pour the coffee over it and you go excellent.

Speaker 1: 12:51

I wasn't sure if that was a if she did it or not. I just blinked and it was like, oh, I'm there.

Speaker 2: 12:55

Yeah, yeah. No, it was very much a like a far from my job for pouring coffee on a computer and I've done exactly this.

Speaker 1: 13:04

Yeah Well, I don't mind that so much. You kind of have to. What's the word? Turn off your brain a little bit. Well, she's good I like the bits at the start where he was sneaking around the factory.

Speaker 2: 13:16

Yes.

Speaker 1: 13:16

That was really good. That felt new. That felt new that we've never kind of seen that doctor just having a bit of a nose, just kind of. And again, the budget, the shots and the way they did it. It didn't feel like a cramped BBC shoot, it felt like a like a film Hollywood style shot, wasn't it Lots of nice.

Speaker 2: 13:35

And again he's just sat there, legs crossed feet Looking at the whole thing, and then the unit scientist goes up and goes, oh hello, and you just think, all right.

Speaker 1: 13:48

And it was nice to see the doctor being the cleverest person in the room back again, because we've missed that with Whitaker where 13 just wasn't with it and wasn't clever. He was all the way through. That was one step ahead, tipped to write the end. When he kind of had to do something to fix the ship, he was always kind of just like always processing, always watching, always kind of understanding what was going on. I thought, yes, nice, because that felt like the doctor proper doctor being the the cleverest person there. Yeah, unit were good.

Speaker 1: 14:22

They've obviously got a better budget now they yeah yeah, yeah yeah, that looked better, and gone are the days of the awkward looking berries and that again that you couldn't fault that.

Speaker 2: 14:33

No, I think the psychedelic son thing was. It was a means to an end.

Speaker 1: 14:43

Yeah means to an end. I think it's interesting the beat the meat thing. So that was in Doctor who magazine years ago and if you, if you like me, and you Google beat the meat and you read upon it, you knew the entire plot of the episode because it was basically word for word exactly what they did in the magazine, where it was a. It was the turns out, beeps the villain, not the, not the cute little creature. So when I'd already read about it, I'll sit there going.

Speaker 1: 15:11

This is exactly the same as what is already out there, which I suppose if you're a fan, you're going to go and you'll probably read it, but if again it, I suppose I could lens itself to the cheap introduction episode. It felt, yeah, bit of an anti climax, because I already knew exactly what was going to happen and it happened in the end of exactly set for all the extra stuff 2023 stuff that they threw in. It was exactly how it was supposed to be, so it's all right. So is it our verdict.

Speaker 1: 15:44

It was all right, it was it didn't feel like a anniversary episode, which worries me for the next two. That's all I'm going to say. I'm at the point now where it's like and I'll say this enough I had to be. If that had been a chibbnaw Whitaker episode, it would have got criticized, but because it's tenant and it because it's RTD, it won't get criticized.

Speaker 2: 16:09

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 16:10

Yeah, and I think that's what it is. It was weak and it was paint by numbers. Dr who We've got two more episodes for it to get better. Yeah, I still stand by the fact we're not going to get a multi doctor episode. We talked about that before. I don't think that that has kind of proven to me that he's not going down that route whatsoever. I think it's purely going to be a reintroduction to the characters is going to get tenant to shooty along this route. I think we're just going to get three stand alone episodes. It's not even gonna have a donor arc anymore, is it? The only arc is the toy maker is obviously the big boss that beat the meat was talking about and there's going to be something in that. That's going to be the arc, but it's very weak arc at that, I think.

Speaker 2: 16:59

Yeah, yeah. So let's address the 2023 elephant in the room we're going to have to.

Speaker 1: 17:08

You can't, can't address.

Speaker 2: 17:09

Yeah, yeah, I think I think let's just preface this with as two straight white males this is not our wheelhouse, anyway shape or form but actually did. Did the let's face it the, what we're going to call the 2023 stuff? So the non binary, the pronouns, the you identify as a male, the whole, that whole element? Did it actually help the story or did it just? Was it just there for the sake of being there? And I think if you write so, if you are a member of the community, that this is referencing, then actually it's really representation. That is. That is beyond question, not not a query or issue in any way shape or form, but Actually, was it done properly or was it cheap? And I think that's that's the problem. When, as soon as, as soon as, like, they had the kids on bikes calling Rose, whatever they were calling her, yeah, I can't remember.

Speaker 2: 18:21

You think, oh, we know exactly where this is going now. So it's, it's the portrait of Angeline. And then, when they're going, oh yeah, but she's non binary Chose, her own name, etc. Etc. Etc, etc. We thinking, well, actually this is now core to the story, but then the, the cure for it was just yet. We're just gonna Give up the power and let it just, it's ever way. And I don't know how that works and it felt very this is fixed now.

Speaker 1: 18:55

Yeah, yeah, I think that just go back. Let's start the animal backwards. That bit about Ignore Rose's character. So you had Donna yeah, who was Dr Donna before there was no cure. Suddenly she's Saying there's a cure. That that was weak. That's weak writing.

Speaker 2: 19:10

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 19:10

I'm starting to buy, that is you. You had the doctor having to sacrifice her, which cheapens that whole story arc in the series. Whatever for yeah. And then she stands there. So I don't know. I could just get rid of it. Well, why didn't you do that 15 odd years ago? Why, why, yeah?

Speaker 2: 19:30

obviously, if it's overloaded in one person has to be split into two, and yet he had it. Why did you just?

Speaker 1: 19:36

Yeah, yeah, I kind of the concept of it. Yeah, been split into two, I get that and that kind of makes sense, I think. Going on to the wider thing, it's difficult. It's difficult because, like I said, there is a element of fan fandom who will not like that one bit and If you look at it from their point of view regardless of whether you think their viewpoint is right or wrong it feels like it's two fingers up to them. Tough luck, you can't watch this anymore. This is this. This show isn't for you anymore. That's what all the message was when it was Jody, when it was Chris Chippen or well, this is if you don't like it, don't watch it. The show is not for you and well, this is for us. So I can see why people will get very angry with that. Come this time tomorrow, there'll be loads of videos on YouTube all about it. So I can understand that. I'm on the flip side.

Speaker 1: 20:23

Like you said, representation means a lot to a lot of people and have something like that in a flagship BBC show is always good. Russell is obviously gay and he's a but For me. I always thought doctor who, when he wrote it, didn't need to be as in your face to be Representational, if that's a breath as a word. In the sense, it was just there and it was just subtle and it it didn't Difficult, because 2023 is very different 2005 in terms of, yeah, people's opinions, the polarizing way of society, both here and in the States, and things like that. And there is a very polarizing Thing that is in the world walks life these days.

Speaker 2: 21:13

I was gonna talk about the internet. Oh yeah, the internet. The world is smaller place and that's not necessarily a good thing.

Speaker 1: 21:22

I'm not separate conversation for after this bit, dav Ross, but it is. It's difficult because I've got no right to talk about some of these things, so but I Like and.

Speaker 2: 21:34

I think this is. This is the problem, isn't it we? Yeah, we fully realize as to straight work males, the, actually we are not. I Think qualifiers are wrong word, but if we are not, that's I'm really struggling for words. I, we are, we are not members of that community and actually, are, it's irrelevant. Yeah, exactly, exactly. But it's a case of actually are you being represented for good Representational reasons or are you being shoehorned in To prove a point? And this is the yeah, we are we are.

Speaker 2: 22:18

We are beating around this bush so bad. We know that we are both my own. Yeah, and actually we will never be the underrepresented, underrepresented, underrepresented. I can't say a word, can I? We? Never, be underrepresented. I still can't say that word.

Speaker 1: 22:37

It's difficult and I've I've seen Seen some comments that people have made on it and Some people who actually said I, I, I'm trans, I think, like that, and I felt that this was too Overtly, it was too in your face, it wasn't subtle, it was like this is what we're doing and we're gonna punch you in the face with it and you're either gonna like it or you're not gonna like it. I think had, had it not been the solution to the problem, had it just been.

Speaker 1: 23:10

Rose was Donna's daughter and that was it, and we acknowledged that the actress playing the character is also Trans as well as the character, and we talked about it in the story. But it wasn't the solution to the problem. That probably would have done it for most people. But because they had that and then they've just woven it all the way through the story, it just hammers it home. It's a difficult thing because there's been a lot it's not just Dr who, it's been a lot of it. We've talked about, obviously, marvel and the way they've failed and that's the honest with force representation in their films and they are failing with it now. It worries me that Is Dr who gonna go Lurch that far to prove a point and be over, just be overtly Representational when they don't need to be, because it was always. It was always.

Speaker 1: 24:09

Representational and the thing is I said it before Chibnall got criticized for being too preachy. This Arguably was quite preachy.

Speaker 2: 24:20

But they'll get away with it because they're not chibnall. Yeah, I think when they, when they met the meep, he goes all Look at him. And when I went on, rose goes all you've. You've assumed his pronouns again.

Speaker 1: 24:35

I was cool it didn't feel right, it didn't feel natural. It didn't. But again, I I generally don't know, but it didn't feel natural in that scene when you've got an alien sat in front of you to be talking about its pronouns. It didn't feel that's what someone would say and I think okay, again, it was.

Speaker 2: 24:58

it was shoehorned in to make the meep, the absolute to which was I am the meep and you go. Yep, I'm not anything, I'm just the meep, yeah and that's meep meep him for whoever it was.

Speaker 1: 25:13

Yeah, that felt. That felt Like it was shoehorned in the other bits. You could argue, I don't know. I think, sadly, it's a divisive decision. Whether you agree there or not, that is only going to make things worse and seeing the response to Davros and what Russell was saying to fans himself on social media, I don't. I think it's gonna be. This is, unfortunately, is Gonna be another theme for this and unfortunately, shooty's gonna get wrapped up into it as well if it continues.

Speaker 1: 25:53

Yeah, and that's the sad thing because obviously you've seen the children need episode with obviously the gov say hold this whole podcato spoilers for spoiler.

Speaker 2: 26:09

Yeah yeah, yeah, so obviously Davros is no longer in his chair. Is it any going? Well, actually is it. Is it the old, the old disabled guy being evil?

Speaker 1: 26:20

well, that was. It's like a different one. Because Russell was on dr Covenant. You'll say, yeah, it's because, say what, people are often portrayed as evil and we wanted to get away from that. And quite a few people message him on Instagram, said I am a wheelchair user, I'm a disabled person and I've never, ever considered Davros to be disabled. He is, and has spouted off all the stuff a mutated injured, carled in a survival suit. And he responded like just going, just like one word answer tough. And it was. It was like Just responding to people who were actually quite telling in the facts about the character and you kind of get the feeling that I had never and generally I've never considered Davros to be in a wheelchair until Russell D Davis said he was in a wheelchair and now it's like, well, I've never thought of it, but you have, and now you're telling me that that's how it is that.

Speaker 2: 27:12

Yeah, it's down, his little mobility scooter thing, yeah, which is great. We love it, but you don't think of Davros as disabled.

Speaker 1: 27:19

No. So I'd like the concept of Davros early Davros, because when he came out in that episode I thought, oh they, they're gonna do early Davros same actor. That's really cool. And now it's oh no, davros is no longer gonna look like him. It's okay. Maybe the Daleks aren't gonna be in it again for a while. We can probably live with that. And then a lot of people didn't like that online and now yeah it's. It's sad in lots of ways that a show has to do that because society's so Polarized like it is.

Speaker 1: 27:52

Yeah it's sad that and I think we have to be in this situation where you've got two sides fighting and People feel the need they have to do it. It shouldn't be like that. Society should accept everybody for who they are, what they want to do.

Speaker 2: 28:04

And I think this is the. The problem is in the world. Whatever, Whatever a TV show does, someone will take issue with it. Oh yeah.

Speaker 2: 28:13

I think that is now when are at. So suddenly you've got to be prepared to apologize for every thing you do and you just think, come on, where does that help or does that hinder Creativeness could? Actually, if you go, I'm just gonna write a good story. Everyone, I like it, but it's just gonna be a solid story and I think if you just have to then consider the opinions of However many million people, you can well actually do I then do the Disney math produced Bland, be as bland and broad as possible, not to fucking offend anyone or just go all in with the, the message and just have all that stuff.

Speaker 1: 29:03

Well, we're gonna do this, and then it doesn't work.

Speaker 2: 29:07

And then it just gets completely messed up.

Speaker 1: 29:10

I don't know, it's a difficult one. Yeah, I was disappointed because I had hoped we were gonna get rid of the preachers. We didn't get that and we go back to trying to uniting fandom again, because that, yeah, is the one thing that out of all the chibinal Era got completely messed up We've talked about it lots of times on this podcast is fandom was split. But really, rightly or wrongly, it's made it worse and I Don't know it's annoyed me. It took the shine off that episode because I knew what was coming and it's like hurry.

Speaker 1: 29:47

Looking for it, it was like it wasn't a good story. It was a bit bland and there were some nice bits in it. And then that happened and it was like, oh crap, that's I swear it's like. No, I know exactly what's gonna happen by this time tomorrow. The internet is gonna be a wash, with people fighting on Twitter yeah, fighting on YouTube, and it's not gonna go away.

Speaker 1: 30:08

And you just think, fair play to him, though His balls, the decision to do it and he's. I can see why he's done it. But the same time is it's like no, do we come? I can't do is With all the rubbishness of the witty career, and it was rubbish. What really dragged me down was this everybody having an argument about dr who and everybody fighting. I just thought I can't be doing it. I can't be doing with all the back biting and the snide comments, and for both sides, because one side is as bad as the other. Yeah, and they just saw, can't we just leave it alone and just get on and just have a nice Kind of just enjoy the show? But if it's gonna be a wash, with Sort of political stuff lurking in the background, it's like I can't do with another three years of just constant.

Speaker 2: 31:01

Yeah, I think the other issue you had was it's a 60th anniversary. The hype is as hyped as hype can be. So unless, so, unless this first episode was a second coming of Jesus.

Speaker 1: 31:15

And then it was always gonna go down, yeah it was always whatever.

Speaker 2: 31:19

Whatever we thought was gonna be, it was never gonna live up to it. Yeah, I think, as fans, that is our cross to bear, using the Jesus reference for more, because actually we will. We will hope something go. This is gonna be the best things in sliced bread and actually, when it's not the best thing since sliced bread, you think what's not very good, is it? But for a, for a non fan, it. I think this is our curse, the curse of being a fan. If I was a casual viewer and Just went, I want to watch it because it's a 60th anniversary something. It's gonna be cool. Hey, would it made any sense? There was no, there was no disc. There was the, the little Intro.

Speaker 1: 32:04

Yeah, I said right, it's what happened, yeah.

Speaker 2: 32:06

Yeah, so actually that has to happen so a casual viewer can go. I kind of get what's going on, unlike the the Catherine takes tenant impression that had to happen to sort of show. Oh yes, I'm not her anymore, I'm Dr Donner. Yeah, yeah, so yeah so as a, as a fan, are we putting too much on Dr who's shoulders?

Speaker 1: 32:28

Yeah, I think I'll admit I'm guilty. I was expecting more Than yeah, but then, looking back on it, I understand why it was a weak story because, like I said, it's a first episode of a series story. That's what it was. It wasn't a, it wasn't the 60th anniversary special episode. It wasn't anything Other than reintroducing Dr who to the masses. That's really what it was about.

Speaker 2: 32:50

Yeah, if we, if we gave it 24 hours and watched it again, would we feel the same? Would we? Like it Well or would we like it less?

Speaker 1: 33:01

I will probably watch it again this week before the next one, just to kind of Review it. I think the next two episodes have now got a heck of a lot more riding on it, especially the last episode. This next one is supposed to be very Dr Donner orientated, with just the two of them. So yeah, that'll be good, because tenant and Catherine take a great doing. We're wrong really good, and the writing will be relatively good, I hope. But there's a lot riding on these last two episodes now for me, yeah otherwise it just becomes a mini series, really isn't it?

Speaker 2: 33:37

Yeah, if it. If it's me, you need to do the trilogy classic. The first episode, or part one, needs to be as Strong as Ron can be because you've got to hook your audience. Part two can have, you can have the middle dip, and then part three has got to bring it home. But part three is always a hard is because difficult for that album, isn't it so right?

Speaker 1: 33:58

It's that. So we'll look at the third one as they got the listings out, for we see how long that third episode is. You see one, what ninth December, isn't it? Second, no, no, yes, yes yes, yes, yes, yes yes so a look, that's night for December 2022. I think why the world do. I think it was. I've got back in time. There's a time you want me mate an extra five minutes. So there we go. It's not actually gonna be. What's that second?

Speaker 2: 34:40

And we know what. The extra five minutes is it's regeneration? Regeneration, isn't it?

Speaker 1: 34:44

Yeah, that's that's basically it. Yeah, tack on five minutes. Job done. See what? Next weekend's one 55 minutes. Next week it's five minutes shorter.

Speaker 2: 35:02

No, it's gonna be. I think it's the pain looks on our faces of.

Speaker 1: 35:07

It was all right, I think the thing is a lot, a lot of people said it was amazing. Oh, it's amazing, it's all the reviews are. So it was all okay. It was okay, it wasn't yeah.

Speaker 1: 35:20

Like some, some review places are five stars, five stars. It wasn't the only reason you're giving it five stars. It's because it's a return to form and it's yeah, it's that nostalgia factor for what doctor who used to be which it it genuinely was you could slot that into any of the series, is Attempts done and it would just stand in there as a forgettable episode that you kind of just go. Oh yeah, I remember that episode that was in that series. Yeah, it wasn't a good one. Yeah, it was just all right compared to week as era.

Speaker 1: 35:52

Yeah, would you would do again fantastic, yes, brilliant.

Speaker 2: 35:55

Yeah, exactly that's why you Compared to tenants heyday, yeah, yeah, it's all right, it's in there, it's not?

Speaker 1: 36:03

yes, he says it's just a right, it's just a filler, it's it felt like monster of the week episode a monster of the week. I think it's no, no, is it like family blood? No, I just feel disappointed. But it's my own fault for getting too excited. I should know better. I should know better.

Speaker 2: 36:20

Yeah, yeah, we should rename it journey the first fandom to the curse of. Fandome because, yeah, we're all gonna over-hype everything.

Speaker 1: 36:28

I think the thing is I I'm thinking about it I went into the 50th with lower expectations because the series before being a bit rubbish yeah, didn't really know what it was gonna be. Like Steven Woffort yeah, you don't know. Hit and miss sometimes Turn out to amazing spot. On this one I was like, ah, I trust you, davis, there was rubbish.

Speaker 2: 36:47

Ah, it's David Tennant, it's gonna be amazing, oh no. Crash down to earth.

Speaker 1: 36:52

Yeah, there you go. This is what the title is gonna be called the be the curse of fandom. It's true, it is, it is, and Ah, oh, next, this time next week, I'll be excited again, but at the same time is, I Don't know, it wasn't, like you said, the second coming of Doctor who, far from it, and I Just really hope these next two episodes are alright, otherwise it's like I don't know.

Speaker 2: 37:23

It's got to be a strong jumping off point for the next season. Yeah, this is really what this season is about yeah, yeah, it's about really got to launch it.

Speaker 1: 37:34

Yeah, it's really like we said before. It's about relaunching Doctor who for the masses and also really giving shooty Gatoir enough of a Leg up to get going, because imagine if he'd started a fresh now oh. No, I feel really sorry for him. It would never work yeah. So by giving him that leg up. It gives him as much boost as you can get going into 2024 to Be good yeah.

Speaker 2: 38:03

Hmm.

Speaker 1: 38:04

I don't know. I just don't know. It's not good. When you look on Twitter and hashtag RAP RIP Doctor who is trending within Within half an hour of it being shown, you just go clicking that, whatever they're called the thing that Twitter uses hashtag.

Speaker 2: 38:24

That's the one. I'm showing my age now on. I, yeah, we're out clicking that hashtag. You know exactly what they were talking about. Yeah, that's the problem.

Speaker 1: 38:32

And that's what feels makes me. It makes me feel sad that we yeah, I don't know, maybe I had too many, too lofty hopes that we could all get along and, yeah, we're never gonna get along.

Speaker 2: 38:43

No, no, well, there we go, yeah, but yeah.

Speaker 1: 38:50

I think we've been constructive here and I've not got into. Oh, it's amazing, but I'm also not gonna go.

Speaker 2: 38:56

I'm never gonna watch it again because of the storyline yeah it's an interesting choice is probably my yeah, I think it was. It was an all-right episode. It wasn't gonna like the world on fire. It could have been better could have been a hell of a lot worse.

Speaker 1: 39:10

Yeah, could have been worse and and Full credit for what they've done in the way they've done it. It's a ballsy move, yeah.

Speaker 2: 39:21

Yeah, I Think next week on grumpy old men's chapter clouds with a new episode two of the me series.

Speaker 1: 39:31

Why was it I can ever this was called wine blue. Yonder you blue.

Speaker 2: 39:36

Yes, something blue blue. Who thing why blue?

Speaker 1: 39:40

universe. Oh, that's this. That's the whole. What's it, though? In it? That's the multiverse thing that they're gonna do. It's coming. We're gonna get. We're gonna get all sorts of nonsense, because you can do what he likes, that. Why blight blue yonder? There we go, yeah, yeah, no, that's the whole wide, that's the whole thing, because we're gonna get. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 40:02

It just came up with. I don't care, it's not doctor who.

Speaker 1: 40:09

I hate the multiverse. I can't stand it anymore because it's so badly Implemented in Marvel. I hate the concept of a joined up universe because no one else can do it. You know, even Marvel can do it anymore. It was done once and it worked, but it can't. It's not a never been done right, but supposedly we're getting a eighth doctor series. Well, so I read that's just crazy. A Companions series with lots of them in it, supposedly things from the time war, all sorts of random ideas and stuff.

Speaker 2: 40:45

There's random spin-offs. Cool, just cool, the bloody random spin-off. We had serigene adventures, we had Torchwood.

Speaker 1: 40:56

We need to have a rose series and we many years ago and that never came to Russian. So we might get a new rose series and then watch the watch. Twitter implode when that happens.

Speaker 2: 41:08

We had class, didn't we with Didn't care about it at all. I think the problem is like a lot of the spin-off stuff is go. I just don't care, I just don't.

Speaker 1: 41:21

It's, I think it's been, I think it's been done wrong so many times and Marvel only did it right because they did it first and even they messed it up.

Speaker 2: 41:31

Yeah, don't my love collapse. I'm gonna wait with so ego. Yeah, that's exactly right.

Speaker 1: 41:37

Oh, I don't know, but we shall see what happens with that.

Speaker 2: 41:43

Have we got a sales council yet?

Speaker 1: 41:44

That's the question no I think these things, these things have to be talked about. Yeah, you can't shy away from it, because it was so blatant.

Speaker 2: 41:55

Yeah, I think this is a running joke, isn't it actually? If you, if they blatantly put things in and then, as us, we question, query, criticize, make statement, actually you go Whoa, is this? Is this what we should be doing?

Speaker 1: 42:16

I just want to watch the show and enjoy it. I don't want to fight about it.

Speaker 2: 42:21

That's the problem. As a fan, can you do that anymore? I think that's what we talked about in our earlier episodes. What is it? What is it to be a fan and actually you've got to be so committed to the bloody cause. I'm willing to die on a hill. You go. I don't want to die on a hill. I'm quite happy sat on the ground, just yeah, that's actually that's a very good point.

Speaker 1: 42:37

That's your.

Speaker 2: 42:40

I.

Speaker 1: 42:42

Like it's like the amendement addendum to that podcast episode is nowadays. You expected to pick a side. Yeah whether it's pro this, anti this, pro that and to that, and if you don't pick a side, you're in, you're the one that's the problem. But it's like what don't want to pick a side and support this, so I'm not supportive.

Speaker 2: 42:59

I just want to watch the show. Yeah, the issue you've got is you're with me or you're against me. That's the thing you. You're either on my side or you're against me. It's not. You have your own opinion. It's not. If you don't agree with me, therefore, you're wrong.

Speaker 1: 43:12

Closing statement from yourself about the episode.

Speaker 2: 43:14

One sentence One sentence to some of the episodes it was a start and can only get better.

Speaker 1: 43:33

Ooh, that's a good one. Yeah, bland series opener Didn't live up to the hype.

Speaker 2: 43:43

Oh.

Speaker 1: 43:48

Of that, though, we will see you next week, for why blue yonder?

Speaker 2: 43:54

What.

Speaker 1: 43:55

Yeah, well, somewhere, yeah, somewhere in the blue until next time. We'll see you when we're back from the blue. It's jerry over me, yeah goodbye for me, bye.