Journeys in Fandom
Step into the world of fandom with Matt and Tim as they take you on a wild ride through the pop culture universe. This isn't just any podcast - it's a journey with two mates who are unapologetically passionate about all things comics, film, TV and more.
Journeys in Fandom
Doctor Who 60th: Predictions, Possibilities and Potential Surprises
Join us on a wild speculation ride as we dig into the exciting possibilities the 60th anniversary of Doctor Who may bring. From exploring the evolution of the series since its return in 2005, to the mystery surrounding the much-anticipated celebration, we revel in the secrecy the BBC and its partners have maintained around the event - a suspenseful silence that has only heightened our excitement and expectations.
Are we set to see a three-part anniversary special with cameos from past Doctors or even a self-regeneration by the Doctor himself? The prospect has us buzzing with anticipation! We delve into the potential arcs for characters like Donna Noble and her daughter.
As we wrap up, we contemplate the significance of the Doctor's regeneration process and the potential impact of David Tennant's return to the universe. We discuss cliffhanger possibilities, mid-episode reveals, and the excitement that the fandom is undoubtedly feeling for the upcoming specials. This is an hour brimming with Doctor Who fan theories and lively conversation that you won't want to miss!
Hello and welcome to episode 10. It's my number. It's. We're back for Journeys in Fandom, yay.
Speaker 2:And it's fitting because this is the big one. This is the Doctor who 60th anniversary speculation episode.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, yes, yes. We're going to spend a whole hour talking about five minutes of clips so far.
Speaker 2:Yeah, which is a good, which is the first point. It's just great. We know nothing, no one knows anything, and it's brilliant. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, we literally know that there are three episodes. We know when they're going to be on now. Yes, because that came out this week. So, yeah, thank you.
Speaker 2:BBC November 25th.
Speaker 1:December 2nd and then December 9th, isn't?
Speaker 2:it, that's correct.
Speaker 1:That was our prediction, wasn't it? We said oh, are they just going to wait till the anniversary? Then just go bang bang bang.
Speaker 2:And they did yeah, yeah. So we've got that one right so yes, one for one. And our prediction score so far yeah.
Speaker 1:I think that's all we're going to get right now, isn't?
Speaker 2:it. Yeah, I think that's. I think that's fair. Fair enough to say that we no one knows what's going on. Well, one person does, oh yeah, well, obviously, a plethora of people know, but no one's saying anything. Nothing has leaked, yes, nothing has dripped out, and that's full credit. We're back to old school BBC, aren't we? Back to 2005 BBC.
Speaker 1:Well, that's the thing. It isn't the BBC, is it? No, it's.
Speaker 2:RCD, incorporated, bad Wolf, sony, whoever you want to call it yeah, so they've kept lit on it. Because I was thinking today, I was trying to equate the 50th to the 60th, and we knew so much more about the 50th episode going into it. Then we know anything about this at all, really do we? So, yeah, we knew John Hurt was going to be it. We knew Christopher Eccleston wasn't going to be it. We knew Matt Smith and John David Tennant were going to be in it. Then I was thinking about leaks. The eighth doctor thing had to be rushed out because that was going to leak. So the BBC had to push out really quickly. So that was something that wasn't supposed to happen until near the time. So, yeah, it was completely different. And also, 50th anniversary. We had all the pageantry, didn't we? Because they had the thing at the expo, the Doctor who Con and all sorts of stuff. But this year, for reasons that we'll probably go into, it's completely different.
Speaker 1:Yes, and I think we touched on this in a prior episode. Which one is more important, the 50th or the 60th?
Speaker 2:It's interesting that because the 50th society puts more on a 50th anniversary than the 60th, doesn't it? I think Doctor who is in a worse place now than it was 10 years ago. So if they ratings wise, reputation wise, trying to do the same thing again with a big event probably won't have drawn as many people in. So, arguably, doing it low key seems to be the team to suit the position the show's in at the moment. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And I'm just trying to think of it. It came back in 2005. So it's been back for what my maths is failing me 18 years.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so actually even now for a show to be running 18 years is mental.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it's all right if you look at all the modern shows yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:You add on the history go, it's been running 18 years for new who. And then you add in original who, you go, yeah, it's 60 years, guys. It's just magic to think.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's been 10 years since that episode, which doesn't feel like 10 years ago. Not getting into the whole, we're getting old thing, but I generally does not feel like 10 years ago we were waiting for the 50th anniversary.
Speaker 1:Oh, it feels like blinking. You miss it kind of thing Definitely. And well, well joking. I think that's because we are getting old and time isn't what it used to be. No, no time travels quicker, Dylating or whatever.
Speaker 2:The opposite of dilating is yeah. So yeah, it's different, different scenario, different era, different situation for the show and in some ways, the sixth these, this 60th anniversary, is the kickstart to try and get the show back on the right track.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Let's be honest, it's it's fell apart over the last, over the last 10 years, nearly enough. For about eight years it's slowly disintegrated around itself, and now this is the catalyst to try and get it back on track.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure. And I don't know about you, but I feel more excited about the 60th than I did the 50th. I think actually. No, I think excited is the wrong word. I think the 50th was a big thing and you kind of think, oh, it's going to be 50 years and it's going to be the event. There's going to be loads of stuff happening around here. We've got the special that we know is happening and all this good stuff and you get all that's going to be cool. But I think, because we don't know anything about the 60th, there's more sort of self-generating hype, I think, because, like with the 50th, there's some filming shots here's, here's that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think, because I think we were more involved in the community back then. It was just always coming cool, whereas now, as a case of actually, I've gone from not thinking about Dr who because I just didn't care anymore, to actually, and I'm waiting to watch it on TV.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I think you're right. I think now that we're away from that community a little bit, you kind of like you just like the normal viewer. So you're I'm not in the conversations, I'm not like watching the videos on YouTube and not following anybody, not talking to anybody about it, so we're just like normal people, just kind of just drip being drip fed what we're getting through the normal channels. For sure, if you went out there you probably could find something, but I don't think there is much to find About spoilers anyway, because it's all completely under wraps. So yeah, 50th was a different thing, because there was so that we said it starts so much we already knew. You just kind of fill it in the gaps, so to speak. And there wasn't that many surprises. If I'm honest, there was. Towards the end of the 50th there was surprises. Arguably the Paul McGann thing was the biggest surprise and that wasn't even in the show.
Speaker 1:So yeah, I think that I think you've hit an album ahead there. The 50th was a nice. It's an episode yep, cool, whatever, and it's almost a case of. It was quite safe in the 50th. Of course you're going oh, you've got 10 stops in it, so what's going to happen to him? Nothing, because nothing can happen. You've got 11 in it, but it's not a regeneration episode, so it's all fine, we know 12 was coming. Obviously we had these hack eyebrows at the end scene, but it was quite a safe episode.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you had the John Hurt mystery, which filled in the gaps and you kind of you understood how that all worked. Once you got to the end of it you understood, okay, he was there to replace Christopher Eccleston, who didn't come back, but it actually worked quite well. And had it been anyone else other than John Hurt it probably wouldn't have been as good, but it worked really well. And he got that nice flow and the continuity of eighths, regeneration, war doctors, regeneration, and then it flowed nicely through. So that quite worked. And it was the first multiple doctor story of the new new who wasn't it? So it was. That was the marquee thing. It was the first multiple doctor story. So that was the big selling point there as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so you also had things like they brought Rose back it's bad wharf, oh yeah, yeah, just come and show you what it is. That was alright, yeah.
Speaker 2:And then Tom Baker at the end, which was a nice nod yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. And you were left kind of like, well, what does that mean? It was very ambiguous enough that you could read into it what you liked. So that was yeah, it was nice nod to the previous stuff. And then around that you had that little the comedy thing. Well, the five-ish doctors, with Peter Davison and Sebastian McCoy and Colin Baker.
Speaker 2:That was really nice, that was really funny, yeah, but it lent itself really well to the whole sort of, like we said, the whole ceremony that was going on about the 57th anniversary. So again, it was a nice little nod to those guys. It was funny and it kind of worked. So because in those days less so now because they've done it they weren't putting anyone who looked all along the screen, but obviously they did that with Jodie and just didn't talk about it, and I personally I think it was a bit naff, but it is what it is.
Speaker 1:So but yeah, that was good, Well didn't they with the Jodie scene where you had all the old doctors, they basically sort of said oh it's a memory circuit thing, so it's all a bit wobbly.
Speaker 2:Except for David Bradley. Except for David Bradley because obviously now entrenched as the first doctor. So yeah, I agree that was different. Yeah, I suppose the old doctor look kind of was just explained away. Although we did have the children need thing didn't we, with Tennant and Davidson, way back when he explained looking old to do with the malfunction of the TARDIS, and that was quite nice. But this was the first official multi doctor story with official characters in it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. So shall we go on to the 60th? Yes, the three episodes.
Speaker 2:Well, that's the first start three episodes instead of one. So yeah, it's interesting because I've got it. I was looking at it here. Obviously the storylines are going to interconnect we get that, but on paper they look like three separate stories. Because you've got the first one, the Starbeast, which has got Beep the Meep in it, which looks like on paper it's a reproduction of the storyline with that character in it from Doctor who magazine, which RTD is known for picking really obscure stuff. Then you've got the was it why? Why, I should know it Wild Blue Yonder I can never say it properly which has nothing around it whatsoever. And then the final one, the Giggle has the Toymaker in it.
Speaker 2:But all we've really seen in the trailers is Beep the Meep, a little bit mainly the Toymaker, and that's it. So is it one? Well, donna's, in all three. We know that. But is it one flowing story or three stories that are going to flow into each other, if that makes sense?
Speaker 1:Yeah, if I was going to be a guessing man, let's face it, this is a guess episode. I think it's going to be a Donorock and it's so. So obviously, tenants Come Back is 14. That sounds weird. So we've got Tenants 14, he's going to be just going wait a minute. What's happened while they come back? Something will trigger him to go and see Donna.
Speaker 2:Which has probably beat the Meep spaceship crash, because I think we have established that is the trigger.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and then it will be him saving her over three episodes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because obviously, as we know, she can't see him or she'll die, but obviously she does know who he is. So how are they going to get around that little problem?
Speaker 1:to begin with, yeah, and we've seen them interacting in episodes. So the whole idea of if she remember me for a moment, just a moment, it's all over. So there's got to be a cure for all that somehow. Yeah, there's got to be a guide out of the rules or something's got to change, yeah, and I think it's going to be that arc of either her being saved or her being restored to having a memory and all that. Or I'm probably so far too far to mark as not even funny, because obviously we've got Donna's daughter, haven't we as well? Yes, yeah, that's confirmed.
Speaker 2:That is her in-storyline daughter. So yes, and we know that Berna Kribbins is in one of the episodes as well, sadly, but he is. We've got Unit, obviously, and she's interacting with them, so she has to remember who he is and I hope the get-out clause isn't as bad as oh, because he's the 14th Doctor, she gets to remember everything because technically he's not the 10th Doctor. That would annoy me. It's got to be something that's plausible, it can't just be a throwaway.
Speaker 1:Oh, she's fine as she remembers, so yeah, or there'll be some kind of she can remember for a finite period, which is why I was saying about this, the arc being saving her, because actually, yeah, you can remember, but actually when we count to 10, it's all over love.
Speaker 2:So yes, have you full memory. But yeah, That'd be good A countdown. Will they kill her off, kind of thing?
Speaker 2:Yeah, because I think that'd be quite nice, because you've got the option of killing a companion, which is always fairly horrific, as much as I like Russell, he's never had the balls to do it, and no one's had the balls to do it any of the showrunners so I can't see them. And Donna's too popular. I can't see her killing her off because she's obviously not carrying on with 15. So she's got to go somewhere. So where's she going to end up at the end of? It.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I don't know, I just don't think they've got the balls to kill her off. Really don't? Yeah, because it was a cop out with Rose. It was a cop out with Clara, yeah, so there's no reason to think they're going to end up with cop out with Donna the first time round.
Speaker 1:So I can't believe they're going to do it. I would have paid good money to see Clara die every episode. Yeah, they were really cop out with her and just dead at the end. And then the end, her being fully dead. Anyway, I think Clara's a wonderful character and she's been happy every episode of Doctor who.
Speaker 2:I don't hate her for a passion at all. I used to like her and then she just ground me down. You used to like Jenna Coleman. Well, yeah, and the prospects of her being in it was great, and then it just went downhill rather quickly when we were on version number three and, yeah, she wouldn't die Anyway, yes, so, donna, I think she's going to live. But yeah, how are they going to get around that little thing? I don't know.
Speaker 1:Oh, oh, oh. So actually, as we know, her daughter isn't. It Is the daughter going to be the one who is always saving and he's just having to balance Donna and saving daughter. Yeah, I don't know, I don't know who knows. No, no idea.
Speaker 2:They'll come up with something. Oh, what else are we going to sit? I think it's worth so. Russell said that it was an interview. Obviously, a little tip bit was on YouTube talking about the obviously bringing back. Not Doctor who unleashed. Is it something else behind the scenes thing? They're bringing all that back again.
Speaker 1:And there was a shot of confidential.
Speaker 2:No, no, unleash confidential. Yeah, they're bringing that back.
Speaker 1:But it's going to be something else.
Speaker 2:And they had the shot of tenant filming the regeneration into him scene and there's Russell there saying that he's just basically confirming that it's not a trick. It's not like the toy maker messing with him, it really is. He is really is the 14th doctor and the way that they've done it, he said, is there'll be a get out and it will get explained. But it's not as if he can go backwards. He has to go forward if that makes sense. So with that in mind, will and it's interesting will the character of the 14th doctor be the same as the 10th doctor or will he have different personality? I depart me things. I don't want to see him just go going around shouting the lawns and stuff like that, because it'd be nice for him to be different. But are they going for a complete regression thing to try and bring the fans back in a little bit as well?
Speaker 1:I would say, if I get it, if I was a guessing man, I would say it's going to have a different personality, it's going to have nods to 10, but be probably older, more jaded, because obviously you've got three more doctors in there since he did 10. And so he's aged a lot and actually Tenet himself is older. So you're probably going to get a more considered, less sort of bubbly insanity that 10 has. So probably a more considered performance, but still with nods to that style, because if you look at him you're going that's just 10 in a different coat.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's not as if they've gone. They've just done exactly the same, just in the blue coat rather than brown coat.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think actually, if they just take the 10 personality but just ground it slightly more and so, rather than running in brown shade of lawns every five minutes, you just go, because screwdriver is different. So I think if they bring in kind of some more of that capaldi intensity I was gonna say intensity, yeah, yeah and a bit more of the sort of Smith bounceiness, you could have a really interesting personality based on 10 plus elite generations, which I think would work quite well. If they just do a carbon copy of 10, you'll just go yeah, it's all right, but it doesn't add anything?
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly that's what I'm trying to think. It's familiar, but you want it to be different. I think the intensity is right, a little bit slower, a little bit more methodical, but with that kind of more severe, because 10, back in the day, 10 was never till these later episodes I didn't. You didn't have the gravitas, but as you got like, series three was great and the specials were great I think series two is always the weakest of the lot and he didn't really have that gravitas. But I think you can have it now because he's older, like you say, tenants, older, he looks older and he can pull it off and it's different character If you look at his performance as like Crowley in Good Omens and stuff like that.
Speaker 1:Actually you get proper 10 vibes from that and you should know well, if you just take that kind of character, put him in a blue coat, then we'll be fine. But also if you bring in elements of like the time of the victorious, from like the specials, the quiet man, from like family of blood and stuff like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that was the kind of the way we started and really to hit his stride with those.
Speaker 2:Yes, and so if you have that fun exterior but then that kind of smoldering depth underneath, Smoldering, yeah no, I think it is interesting and I think we said before to me they had to go big with whoever to get people back in, and actually they've gone big in the biggest way they could other than bringing in someone like Tom Cruise to do the one-off, and I think it'll work. I think it'll work. I think it's a Hail Mary to a certain extent to bring Taylor Tennant back. But then Russell, I've got faith in Russell that he will do it right and it's not just for views, he's actually gonna do and he's gonna write it well and it's gonna make sense.
Speaker 1:And I think it's gonna be a three-part arc. So those three episodes I think there are three because it's gonna be set up- middle delivery and. I think Tennant a lot opposite Neopatrick Harris.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's gonna be good because I like Mental. Yeah, because me, and Neopatrick Harris is a great actor and he's range is out there. So, yeah, because not only have you got all that going on, it's the. Why have I got this face story arc for the doctor that's gonna go through all three episodes? So he's got a Mexican style. What's going on? And why have I gone backwards instead of forwards?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that yeah, it should be good and you get the confidence that it's gonna be good because it's Russell, it's Tennant and Tennant. Wouldn't you get the feeling that Tennant wouldn't come back unless it was good? Because the quality of actors just don't go back and do something unless they want to do it. And he's a massive fan anyway, isn't he? But you'd think he wouldn't go back and do it if he didn't think it was worthy of doing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that's the thing. Like Tennant is a proper actor.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, he's yeah proper actor. It can choose what he wants, can't it?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. Well, it's the old classic Shakespearean stage actor. He's got the talent to just stand there and go. Yeah, what do you need from me? Kind of thing? Yeah, and I think the combination of Russell him, the fact they've got time, so A-one off special would be rushed and feel bad, whereas the three you've got time to tell a story in three parts.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, I think that's the thing, because the 50th was when it was. It told a good story, but it was 60 minutes. We've got, I'm guessing, at least three 45 minute specials, if not three hours. I don't think they've actually run times. So you're gonna get a decent story out of that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and, like I said, you can do the Plains Reacts and that, I think, is gonna be key to it. So your arc has got time to do its thing, but not too much time to become annoying like in the Moffat era, where every episode he is a bloody crack in a wall. Please stop.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but actually yeah there's the three parts, in case you're like let's build it up, let's have a strong center and then let's have a massive crescendo finale, because is he regenerating at the end of the third one or does he regenerate at Christmas?
Speaker 2:Well, this is. I was leading really seamlessly into my next question. So shooty Gatua's first episode will be the Christmas special, that's definite. I've read that it's been said so seamlessly into this one and I'll get to shooty in a minute.
Speaker 2:But everyone's assumption is this is going to be a multi-doctor episode. From everything I'm seeing, I don't think it is. I don't think we're gonna get a multi-doctor episode. Everyone's just assuming oh, it's an anniversary episode, it's gonna be multi-doctor. There's nothing and I know we've said it's all under wraps and it could be, but there's nothing to indicate that there's gonna be a massive multi-doctor kind of thing. I think there'll be cameos and I don't know how they're gonna do it because of the story. But I think this is gonna be a 10 and 14 centric episode series and I don't think we're gonna see. We might see Matt Smith, we might see Capaldi. I wouldn't be surprised if he was Capaldi. I know he's said, oh, I'll never do it, I'll not do it. But he's a massive fan and if he was asked to do it he'd do it. But I don't know. I just get the feeling that we might we'll either see him in cameos or these other things that Russell's done to celebrate the 60th, which could be like the Paul McGahn style webisode stuff that he's talked about. He's filmed stuff, but I just don't see it being a multi-doctor series, except if they regenerate or do something weird halfway through.
Speaker 2:So Shooty Gata is actually in it at the end for more than just like two seconds. That's my. Are they gonna bring him in earlier? Because, as that scene is there, someone will tell me what the hell's going on here thing that's been in all the trailers. They've said that the background's been grayed out no, grayed out, but replaced. Would they bring him in earlier, earlier to interact somehow in the story? I don't know so, but yeah, multi-doctor, what do you think?
Speaker 1:I think they've done multi-doctors for a lot of the big anniversaries and the problem is with a multi-doctor story is screen time. If you don't have enough time and a robust enough story, having a multi-doctor episode simply just dilutes things. You'd be better writing a good story and having a doctor than writing a mediocre story to have 13 of them. Yeah, and I think that's the thing. If you've got a story that needs multiple doctors to tell it, then go for it, but if you're doing it for the sake of doing it, don't do it. It was actually like in the 50, with the all-at-arist. That was good yeah because it just.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was a 10-second scene. Yeah, that's it. It didn't detract, so you then didn't also have all these people fighting for screen time, whereas when they did the five-doctors episode well, four-doctors and a cardboard cow episode none of them have enough time on screen to really make an impact.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the only ones that really did were two and three, because they played so well off each other that they kind of dominated a lot of the scenes, because they were just really good actors who were just sort of like They'd done it before. In fact, weren't they in the three-doctors?
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, and obviously you had the two-doctors as well, in the form of six and two. Yeah, yeah, yeah, so that worked because there's only two of them. So you just, and they can just, swap companions a bit and it's all fine. But if you do too many a bit like an Avengers film If you have too many characters, no character gets time to shine. If you just go, do you know what this is going to be? 14 and a companion and a villain, that's all you need, because even then you've got three people who are vying for time, because a companion who's just there could be anybody, A doctor that's getting overshadowed by the companion. We have the Amy Ponsnario, and if your villain isn't well defined, you have villain Lewey. Yeah, and I think that's that's muster. He fears. When you've got an hour special, you need something that's going to be worth going up against. You don't want to. He isn't for a little week. He is the absorbal off Cool.
Speaker 2:Oh, there's a reference. Yeah, yeah, I think part of me would like Capaldi to be in it, because he deserves to be, because he got shattered. Matt Smith doesn't need to be, because he's already done a multi doctor episode. He's already had that pleasure. Capaldi is the only one Jodie I don't. We talked about it previous episodes on the podcast. Jodie's not coming back. It's too soon. Ignoring all the who are. It's too soon. I can't see her coming back and doing anything.
Speaker 1:I don't know if Smith would come back, because his career is not in that place. I think he's doing too much other stuff. To actually getting him back would probably be easier said than done. Yeah, which?
Speaker 2:it could lend itself to a cameo.
Speaker 2:Yes but not. I think. The thing is you got three episodes. The first one's the intro one.
Speaker 2:If they don't pull the trigger and do a cliffhanger from episode one to episode two with I don't know 12 rocking up, they're not going to do it in the third episode because they won't have time, because they've got to make it all They've got to, like you said, they've got to tie up all the loose ends. So the only episode they've really got a chance to do it is that middle one. That's that's in some ways to get a hook between episode one and episode two. They need something big on that final scene to link into the second one so people will come back and watch it. They'll come watch the first one because it's like ooh, david Tennant is in 60th. The middle one's always going to be a bit flaky because it's sandwiched between both of them. So if they don't pull the trigger on a multi-doctor thing, an extended cameo, shall I say, in the second episode, they're not going to do it and it will just be cameos at the end.
Speaker 2:I've heard people speculating and I don't think it will work about is he going to revisit the curator, tom Baker character? But Tom Baker doesn't look, does not look well. That's a separate conversation for another day. He does not look well. He didn't do that thing with Jody, and apparently he was supposed to do it, but he was doing something else. I can't remember what it was. They said he was doing but I just is it.
Speaker 2:He looks old, but he would. He probably jumped at the chance to do it because he's Tom Baker, so they could revisit that character again. Or there's always David Bradley, the first doctor, because it is the 60th. Possibly again. It makes sense again, doesn't it? But I don't know. Yeah.
Speaker 1:But, like we said, we don't. If it improves the story and adds value to the episode, do it with all of your heart. If it's just there for for what a better word? Fan service. Yeah.
Speaker 1:If it doesn't add anything, then you need to do it. Are you better off? Are you better off just having a really good story that he's going to draw people in for it being good, than going here's all this subsidiary stuff that is there to just, yeah, it's. It's that kind of do you, do you just have it to bring people or do you just rely on a really solidly read episode, yeah, and I suppose now they, because they're not with the BBC, they've got the luxury.
Speaker 2:They could always chuck in a multi-doctor story in shooties first series, couldn't they? They've got they've got the luxury of just going okay, we'll just do a Matt Spitz crossover story to finish that series off, or something like that. Who knows, it could be as something like that. I don't know, I think everyone's assuming we're going to get multiple doctors, but I just don't think we're going to get multiple doctors because it, yeah, because also as well, I know they've been keeping things under wraps, but you think they would have announced something like that to try and draw people in. But then I don't know because they haven't been announcing anything.
Speaker 2:But most of it was filmed in the studio. So all the cameos oh no, hang on, this is running something. I can't. I haven't got the quote. I should have got it ready. There was something where Russell had said, either in a tweet or an interview, that they filmed something outside with a special character and no one spotted it and he said he was really pleased that no one saw it, found the filming, took a picture or anything, and he said he was really chuffed that got that and they managed to do it. So again, what's all that about? So I don't know. I just yeah, but going back to thing, I can't. I think everyone's assuming it's going to be multiple doctor. I don't, don't think it's going to be multiple doctors.
Speaker 1:I actually it's going to be multiple doctors. I'll tell you what it's going to be. We're going to have, like, tom Cruise as a 27th doctor.
Speaker 2:Well, we talked about it, didn't we?
Speaker 1:Just randomly left field.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because we talked about Russell coming to watch filming or something with a massive star that he just wanted to come on set to see. Well, it's like, well, who's you hasn't cast in Doctor who, who is a massive star? It has to be someone from Hollywood who is a massive star from Hollywood that would do something like that Tom Cruise, because he's seen it in Tropic Thunder where he did all that crazy stuff. He's willing to do random stuff and he's that kind of person.
Speaker 2:So yeah, who knows that might be the completely left field thing. It's Doctor X from this thing and it's totally not what we expect.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think that's that's why this episode of speculation is quite nice, because we simply don't know anything. We've got nothing to go on other than we know three episode titles, we know a villain, we know the companion and we know who the doctor is.
Speaker 2:Unit are in it.
Speaker 2:Okay, let's do it and that's it. Yeah, I don't know what else. Just to say really, it's kind of yeah, he's shooting, gonna be it? Yes, he is. Is he gonna? Is it gonna be classic regeneration at the end of the series or is it gonna? You obviously see him and he's wearing 14s shirt and tie.
Speaker 2:So there was some speculation I was reading to sprandom people talking about it that maybe he, the regeneration, was gonna go backwards and we're gonna end up back on the cliffs where 13 regenerate to 14 and it's gonna regenerate to 15. That doesn't work. That's just stupid. They were trying to explain away the fact that the background was masked out. Other people said is it Gallifrey? The fact that they've done that was that's feasible, but in that shocking finale to the last series they got rid of Gallifrey again. Somebody said and I don't know where this came from that the doctor was going to get this by generate, not to regenerate, and have 14 and 15 existing in the same timeline. So 14 would go off and do his thing at the end and 15 would go off and do his thing where they got that from, I don't know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that was a random Facebook post. I was like hey, that's the main thing to me that's just that's fan wishful thinking and it trying to keep telling the show forever. Yeah, the only thing I talked about. The one big surprise which would be a big surprise is Eccleston. That would be nice if he had some kind of cameo in it, because the only name we've not took that no one's talking about.
Speaker 2:In terms of Paul McGahn, they said, oh, paul McGahn could be in it. Capaldi, matt Smith, no one's saying Christopher Eccleston, that would be nice, he deserves that as well. But anyway, I digress. Say same rules apply to his cabio as it all the rest of them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think the other thing we haven't talked about is obviously there's going to be regeneration and obviously that, joe D, regeneration was God awful, in my humble opinion it's how did your doctor die? I got hit by a thing that kind of glanced me maybe, and then I wandered around for a bit and just regenerated.
Speaker 2:It was a fitting end to that series it was a fart in the bath.
Speaker 1:It really was.
Speaker 2:There was no emotion to that whatsoever. If you look at Tennant's one, when he regenerated, took any of them and it's like yeah. And then her one was like well, that's the thing.
Speaker 1:Are we going to have another TARDIS destroying regeneration like Tennant's? Tennant's I don't want to go Is iconic, it's that, it's that one. We just go. Yeah, I'm gonna burn down this entire set in the process and Completely change everything, because it was a change of showrunner, a change of everything for the time. Yeah, so you go. Well, actually it was big, it was quite, it was quite a Violent regeneration, because it was case of, yeah, I'm gonna hold on to lead to the end and then just let everything go. Oh, are they gonna try and top that already just gonna have a? Actually, I've done my story, enough is enough, I need to move on. So, yeah, is it gonna even? Is he even gonna get killed to actually force your generation, or is it gonna be?
Speaker 1:something else gonna happen, yeah yeah, because again you had Wilfs four, not you had the whole build up to it. Yeah, too soon.
Speaker 2:That's actually in itself is a point, because everybody has Got the feels from tenant leaving and obviously he's back, so everyone's now going oh, he's gonna regenerate again. It's gonna be really emotional. So are they purposely going to not make it as emotional, to try and get that deep, like that divide between 10 and?
Speaker 1:Brain. So tenants last words yeah, I don't want to go net this time. It's time for me to go.
Speaker 2:Could you, could you it would? That would be so good. Yeah, that would work really well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think actually is a juxtaposition from the emotion, this Emotionalness of the specials and that kind of big Four knocks, yada, yada, yada, and even even his chat with Wilf in the cafe of the case of Wilf, I'm gonna die, you go, don't do that. Yeah, that whole, it was so intense. Hmm.
Speaker 1:I think this time it almost needs to be the opposite. Yeah, you get to the end of episode three of the specials and go actually, I've worked out why I came back. I've tied up that loose end. My story has ended. He's out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and he can't Sacrifice himself for somebody else because he's already done it. It needs to be I Don't know clean, cut Chalk through the heart, that kind of stuff. It can't be another sacrifice because that that waters down will sacrifice thing. Yeah, that whole scenario, yeah let's start. We cannot.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what we can't do is cheapen 10s exit.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's exactly right yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, unless he does repeat to save Donna in the same way he saved will, which will be hit repeating itself. But actually, more think about it, him going to his own choice. I think, I think that yeah probably have more impact. Because no?
Speaker 2:one's done it. No, no, because we had 11. 11 to 12 was really good because it was like it was like a beat and he changed in it and that was completely different 12 to 13. They blew up the TARDIS.
Speaker 2:They're the same old thing that had a lot of baggage around it anyway but yeah, and then obviously 12 to 13 had the prolonged thing where he met the first doctor who's also regenerating and it was that whole concept of regeneration and about not wanting to regenerate and the kind of sort of set himself right with that. And then 13 to yeah, he said 13 to 14 was just standard stuff. So yeah, you could actually. Oh, yeah, I like that he's gonna chooses to go rather than. It might even.
Speaker 2:I don't know how you do it, because that's kind of you brought it on Suicide, but it's like Is he actually gonna be fatally injured or how does he choose to move on? It's kind of well the master's done it.
Speaker 1:Remember when it became John sim? Hmm, when he, yeah, so he literally opened the watch and so it's all. And then he got shot, though by beetle girl.
Speaker 2:I didn't he. Oh yeah, didn't he did no, I was thinking.
Speaker 1:I was sure the master's done it through choice, because it's it's also that's it.
Speaker 2:I'm confused. He chose not to generate, didn't he when he got shot? Yes, in the future. So it's the opposite. Yeah, that's why I was yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because I know Historically they've sort of said all when he's, when they're injured beyond help or when their body is too old, or you just go. Actually, you know, if it's enough, I'm sure there's. There's an option.
Speaker 2:They could write cannon change the cannon where the doctor chooses to regenerate himself, don't stop suicide, but he just chooses to regenerate himself Through the TARDIS. They could make some it up, make it work. Yeah, that would be quite cool actually yeah, and I think there's a.
Speaker 1:There's an opposite. As a mirror to the last time that I've been really good, and also, I think, for the rabid fan base, it would be tenon having an opportunity to say, actually, guys, enough is a bloody enough. Yeah, I'll come back if needed, but yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Because the I don't want to go is is so iconic, we just go well, actually did he want to go? Kind of thing. You know, yeah, he did, and people can't distinguish the character from the person. So, as last words, okay, so I don't want to go, is is is great. But then people are going, oh, but actually we don't want him to go either, and he's going yeah.
Speaker 2:No no one's doing guys.
Speaker 1:And that would be a good way of him Re-passing the torch.
Speaker 2:Yeah so it's time to go and the shooting kit that we've seen could indeed be his first words, rather than being this kind of like Duranimo, whatever kind of thing. He just just goes off, just goes off on one what the hell's going on here? And it's just completely. It would be a nice Realized kind of ending. And then he just just goes off on one, and then that leaves it on a massive cliffing. Oh, he says she's just berating people. So because we don't know, because we've not seen any clips of what shooties, doctors gonna be like obvious reasons, and we just assuming he's just gonna be a Morphed image of the last four or five that we've had. And if he's gonna be completely different, please, god, be completely different. It'd be great. And what a great way to start it by having just bollocking people. Yeah, exactly. So I don't know, but yeah, I like that.
Speaker 2:I like the concept of he's gonna choose to go rather than be forced to yeah, if I get this right, I'm playing lottery next week.
Speaker 1:It is kind of I've got this, I'm tapping, tapping into the beam.
Speaker 2:You're gonna wait till the start of December to see if we're right, but I like it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, okay, because I think that's it's left field enough it's not it's not the obvious cliche.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he's gonna get shot, he's gonna sacrifice himself, he's gonna get blown up. All that kind of nonsense it's gonna be. Because what? Let the doctor died of old age, didn't he? Yes, and that hold on. The whole regeneration cycle thing wound into it. Capaldi was killed by Cybermen, or the master. Which one? Was it Cybermen? Yeah. I can't remember one of them to so many other two masters, and then obviously Jolly got shot. Yeah, so you could argue that's how. That's how it would work.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yes, I like that have we got anything else to dissect?
Speaker 1:I think that's it, isn't no, obviously I'm just looking forward to Neil Patrick Harris acting at me for an amount of time. Yeah, like I said, I think I think I'd take away from this is as long as it's a good story that needed to be told. I think that's the key thing. Don't bring back these characters for a half-hour story.
Speaker 1:Mmm and I think, because there are three episodes, I think it's gonna be good. Yeah, because you've got time. If it was a one-off special, he is Donna, he is ten and he is the toy maker you go oh god, it would be too much, whereas we've got time to explain what the hell is going on.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and really get to the grips on that story arc, the multiple arcs that are flowing through it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think it needs to be a good, solid arc. And I'm excited, yeah, the fact that the fact that we've pretty much given up on the series and now we're talking about it a lot, because, yeah, it's exciting again.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because I was thinking with those two, those weekends, like what I've got planned for those weekends, what am I doing because I'm cancer, yeah. And then, yeah, with previous who, it's like, oh God, I might as well watch an iPlayer, watch it later. But now it's like right, I've got a plan that evening out because I've got to work out to get it all, get everything done so I can watch that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's on, so don't have to get you on a, get you on old Skype and just go yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's things like that before I just kind of like if I didn't, if I saw some spoilers, I wasn't that bothered. But now it's like no, I'm not, I'm shutting off social media and everything. Yeah, going into it.
Speaker 1:Yeah it's like the only time I can guarantee to watch who live is the regeneration and. For Jody. I think I'll watch it on iPlayer about three weeks later. Yeah, just a guaranteed gone, because it was just. I was just so blur with the whole thing, whereas now I'm going right. I need to make sure I'm at home, I need to make sure my TV works, I need to be prepared like lights off, door locked, yeah, so I'm saying go away Phone switched off everything, just quiet, to watch it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's bizarre how a year it's been a year, near enough. It's been a year since she went this week, because I remember watching it yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I saw a thing saying it's been a year since the regeneration. I went. Has it really yeah?
Speaker 2:I think, I think it needed it.
Speaker 1:I think it needed the break.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we talked about before, didn't about. Should they've cancelled it? So for that, but just having that break out with the old, in with the new.
Speaker 1:Let it sell out with the old, in with the old. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, it has settled. I don't know what it's like in non who've who've been fandom, whether the people will come and watch. I think they will do like the general public and they'll stay if it's good. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I think you will have the classic tenant is big enough to bring people back for the first episode as a guarantee.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, because people would have been treated to see what's going on.
Speaker 1:If they, if you say, if it's that linking arc, then episode two is in the bag and episode three is covered because it's regeneration on it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. So yeah, you've got it. You've got regeneration. It's always going to be big. First one is big. Well, jody's was big because everyone was just intrigued with all about then the ratings fell off the cliff and the middle, one has to have the cliffhanger big reveal hook that brings you back for that middle episode, which could be the most of all doctor episode just in the middle, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and because you've got two teas. First episode of Christmas it's not far away. Yeah, you've got the hype built, so you've only got to wait like two weeks, yeah, to have the Christmas episode, and that's close enough to keep people invested. Yeah, so his, his Christmas one will be well watched, as long as it's on sensible time on BBC one. Yeah, yeah, yeah, because then he's back again.
Speaker 2:The old days. Yeah, he's coming back in Easter. He's actually now. They're already filming his second series and there was like a there's a comment that said hypothetically and then there's not speculation, just hypothetically he could have left the show before his series actually airs on TV, hypothetically. But I think it's minimum three series. But he's already filming his second series and they haven't even released the first one yet, which is great. So there's got to churn that out and obviously they're banking on it being a success, if well they can, it's private money in it.
Speaker 2:You could pay what they want.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and I think also, could you, could you imagine if you actually went before? It is because I wouldn't spoil it to be locked, spoil to be locked down because they're already filming miss of series two? He could have spots anything. It's so so far in the future. I think I think that would be genius. I think that would be a proper, really big bollocks move to do that yeah. Just three seasons job done.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and really by time he leaves, his end of his first season is just finished and he's already gone. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Oh man, yeah, it would be good because he's, yeah, because touch on it briefly, but he's got, he's still going to have a quite big choose to fill because, yes, the hype will roll him into Christmas nicely, but that Christmas episode got to be good to keep people invested to Easter. So he's got to hit the ground running hard and kind of draw those people in 10 to 10. His first episode he wasn't. It wasn't neat, for half of it was a Christmas episode.
Speaker 1:That was the first Christmas episode. Yeah, he was in it for about 10 minutes the end.
Speaker 2:So that was you got to give us a one off and it it worked because it was different. But every other subsequent Christmas episode most of them are shite.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's very lightweight, the Matt Smith flying fish one. They're not a Christmas Carol, oh God.
Speaker 2:Oh God. And then there's Capaldi's. One was rubbish. They're all yeah. The only one that was good and it really wound me up was when they had Santa and they didn't make Santa a time Lord. They had such a golden opportunity to make Santa a time Lord. They could have explained it all away and it'd be brilliant. They didn't do it anyway.
Speaker 1:Because, um For you to do down to that episode of Kylie.
Speaker 2:Oh, that wasn't too bad, yeah. Okay, that's probably the best out of our bunch, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was watchable. Therefore it's it's topped here already because we can actually sit through and not hate ourselves.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you had the snowman with Capaldi and Jenna Coleman, which, anyway, I digress but yeah, he's got to hit the ground running. But I think they can do it because the momentum will be on the side.
Speaker 1:And yeah, I think I think the timing is perfect because you're going to have massive momentum going into it, because you've got the 60, if you've got the three specials, you're then straight into the Christmas. You've just got a hold between Christmas and Easter and that that quarter is going to be the key. So you need to be to rip feeding stuff and keeping that interest going, because actually for the specials they haven't got to do anything because the specials are coming and tenant is back. That's enough. That is enough, yeah, whereas for his season you've got to get people engaged because if Christmas is average, it's first season dead in the war. If Christmas is good, you've then got to keep them engaged till Easter. If Christmas is bad, can't stop doing.
Speaker 2:They'll get the Daleks back at Christmas. You wait oh please no Shoe. Horn them in. Legally bind the contract. You've got to do it. Yeah. It's season, regardless, got to get it back.
Speaker 1:I think I wouldn't care if it is something interesting, not original and interesting. It doesn't ruin what a Dalek is.
Speaker 2:Yeah, to be fair, the one they did with Jody and the Daleks the new year before last your time won no not that one.
Speaker 2:That was a privilege One before that where the Daleks were kind of fighting themselves and then the president guy sort of sold out the earth and like joined sides with the Daleks and the actors now in a lot of trouble and we don't see him ever again. He was quite a good actor, he was quite a good character. But that was quite cool because it was kind of Daleks versus Daleks. You could kind of excuse everything else that was going on. But I wouldn't use a Daleks as police things. That was reasonably okay.
Speaker 2:But yeah isn't it legally binding? Got to get them in one a season, yeah, so they'll be. The right the rights go, we shall return. Russell likes these weird and wonderful monsters, doesn't really so? We might get something even more interesting yeah. I have offered him my services. I should have you add on when I spoke to him last on Instagram and he said he nodded with approval and I think that was that was about it. So you never know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, could you imagine. The next season's arc is South Hildeson background.
Speaker 2:I'd take that Any opportunity to know I would be in South Hildeson.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, if that happens, I'm coming to film and write.
Speaker 2:They run out of ideas.
Speaker 1:Yeah, does he see a cameo with some hair in the background?
Speaker 2:You put the suit back on for that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'd put the suit back on for that. Yeah, yeah, just randomly in the background Splinking, you miss it. That'd be amazing.
Speaker 2:I think we're chicken fillets have disintegrated, if I'm honest.
Speaker 1:On that bombshell. I think we've, I think we've talked, yes, talked this to death.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Literally had nothing to talk about.
Speaker 2:No, I will have to revisit this episode with our predictions in December to see whether our predictions were true.
Speaker 1:So our predictions are just to clarify my own head Quality arc yeah, it's going to be a three, three part arc yeah, the doctors going to generate through choice not to be killed yeah, if there is a doctor story, it's going to be episode two.
Speaker 2:And if it's not, it'll only be cameos. They won't be yeah.
Speaker 1:And if he does get killed, it's saving Donna or Donna's daughter, correct, I think?
Speaker 2:that's it. And 15th Doctor is going to bother everyone when he regenerates, because that's yeah, yeah, yeah, that'd be amazing. Cool, right. Well, that note, I think we'll finish off.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, indeed, I think we need to say goodbye for me and goodbye for me.